Why is't the new RB reprint up to date.

[Michael Dorosh]

yep, I hope there is still an ASL hobby in twenty years though, none of us are getting any younger and there doesn't seem to be that much new blood coming into the hobby though, what with Starter Kit, I could, hopefully, be wrong

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a new resurgence of interest in the Second World War at the time of the centennial anniversaries - 2044 or thereabouts. It was the case with the Civil War, and I believe for example the modern reenactment hobby took off in the 1960s as the US commemorated 100 year anniversaries of significant battles like Gettysburg. Though by then, perhaps stuff like electronic gaming tables will have further cut into the physical printing marketplace. But if videogames weren't able to kill off boardgames by now, I doubt they ever will.

 

[Alan Hume]

That is true, good point

that shipping is painful?

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a new resurgence of interest in the Second World War at the time of the centennial anniversaries - 2044 or thereabouts. It was the case with the Civil War, and I believe for example the modern reenactment hobby took off in the 1960s as the US commemorated 100 year anniversaries of significant battles like Gettysburg.

True, that's a very good point, could well work out that way I guess

 

[holdit]

But if videogames weren't able to kill off boardgames by now, I doubt they ever will.

I've vastly reduced my computer wargaming in favour of boardgaming. Namely ASL for WW2 and Napoleon's Battles for 1792-1815. The Scourge of War series Napoleonic is just too frustrating and the scope of Combat Mission is too limited. I created a scenario for CMBN that has been unplayable due to a bug that has been awaiting a patch for over a year. That may have been the nail in the CM coffin for me. I've even held off pulling the trigger on the latest CMFI release thinking I might spend the money more effectively elsewhere i.e. ASL.

It's a lot more effort doing the engine work yourself, but also more rewarding, I find. The PC wargame I 'm playing most often now is Field of Glory II (Ancient to Medieval periods) and I suspect the fact that its implementation is quite close to the FoG miniatures rules has something to do with that.

 

[nicky_longbranch]

Collectors should put their time and effort into another product if financial gain is the chief objective. I think the reason MMP does not want to do the E-rules is its very easily copied and sent everywhere. The do not want to lose the revenue source. I know of one other game that still charges for rules (ATS) and that game even has an E-PDF. No other game charges for rules alone and really why should they, its just extra money for the company. There is a very small niche of ASL players and let's be honest it is shrinking every year and will NOT ever grow past what it was decades ago. I think the amount they would lose would be made good by an increase in players. I have no factual basis for that comment. We should be trying to figure out ways to make ASL more interactive, like a visual Chapter H, that is searchable, features images of each vehicle with example of play use. If they were smart charge a monthly licences fee for all the material online. You would have to throw out some free scenarios and articles with it but it would be awful swell. Also there is an HTML unauthorized version that I found years ago. It works fine, but I still use my book. It has updated pages for sure.

 

[nicky_longbranch]

I've vastly reduced my computer wargaming in favour of boardgaming. Namely ASL for WW2 and Napoleon's Battles for 1792-1815. The Scourge of War series Napoleonic is just too frustrating and the scope of Combat Mission is too limited. I created a scenario for CMBN that has been unplayable due to a bug that has been awaiting a patch for over a year. That may have been the nail in the CM coffin for me. I've even held off pulling the trigger on the latest CMFI release thinking I might spend the money more effectively elsewhere i.e. ASL.

It's a lot more effort doing the engine work yourself, but also more rewarding, I find. The PC wargame I 'm playing most often now is Field of Glory II (Ancient to Medieval periods) and I suspect the fact that its implementation is quite close to the FoG miniatures rules has something to do with that.

Have you tried anything by Paradox, Hearts of Iron, Europa Universalis, Victoria II. And i love the Total War Games!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Collectors should put their time and effort into another product if financial gain is the chief objective.

Speaking for myself, I'm not fooling myself into thinking I'll get rich off my collection, and I collect vintage wargames in order to study, and frankly, just to own them, not to speculate on their value and make a killing. It would be nice, as a byproduct, to think I could leave something of value behind when I go, though. It's not the objective, but it would be nice for my heirs if it worked out that way.

 

[nicky_longbranch]

Hey Mike, Sorry if that came across as mean spirited, I just meant I don't see board games such as ours as becoming all that more valuable with time. There are not too many people who buy the games just to look at them, or even keep them in the shrink and then check out the backs. I know a few people that got into because of their dad's but did not really care for playing but always felt an attachment to the hobby. I love playing but I have done more looking, setting up then tearing down, then I have ever played so I can understand the joy of collecting. I think prices will go up a little bit more or certain titles as a result of supply and demand but then I predict a sharp decline once the majority of players declines with time. Most conventions I go to I am one of the youngest at 35, most are in the 60-70's range. I wish we would have a resurgence in these games but the things that make them so enjoyable are little appreciated by the younger generations. I cannot see too many Youtubers and miecrafters putting in hours and hours just to learn how to play, and then dozens more actually playing.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Hey Mike, Sorry if that came across as mean spirited,

No worries, you didn't, we're just talking here and exchanging differing viewpoints.

I just meant I don't see board games such as ours as becoming all that more valuable with time. There are not too many people who buy the games just to look at them

Are you sure about that? I'm constantly amazed at the new Facebook groups that keep popping up for collectors of this or that ephemera. As well as the prices that rare collectible games fetch - though I'll also point out that I've been able to find relatively rare and obscure titles for prices that are not astronomical. I think the most I paid for a 1970s era wargame was about $250 USD. Which while steep, isn't like paying a million bucks for a copy of ACTION COMICS #1, current value of which is in excess of 3 million dollars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_Comics_1

The difference is in mass market appeal - Superman is a well-known commodity. I think you are right if you are suggesting SQUAD LEADER will never gain that sort of household fame.

I wish we would have a resurgence in these games but the things that make them so enjoyable are little appreciated by the younger generations.

I agree.

 

[daniel zucker]

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a new resurgence of interest in the Second World War at the time of the centennial anniversaries - 2044 or thereabouts. It was the case with the Civil War, and I believe for example the modern reenactment hobby took off in the 1960s as the US commemorated 100 year anniversaries of significant battles like Gettysburg. Though by then, perhaps stuff like electronic gaming tables will have further cut into the physical printing marketplace. But if videogames weren't able to kill off boardgames by now, I doubt they ever will.

the modern reenactment hobby did in fact take off because of the 100th anniversary of the ACW and in turn it spawned reenacting WWI; WWII, the American Rev. War and lots of other historical periods, There is a huge subculture in all of those Historical periods and not just the military side and all of those are going strong with a few people/companies making a living off of them. I see a future for ASL in much the same light.

 

[hongkongwargamer]

Collectors should put their time and effort into another product if financial gain is the chief objective.

Absolutely.

There is a very small niche of ASL players and let's be honest it is shrinking every year and will NOT ever grow past what it was decades ago.

I have heard this repeated every year for the last 7 years and all I see are more and more people piling/ piling back into ASL. Hey as Mr Keynes famously said, "In the long run, we are all dead." I have no doubts that everything that lives, dies. But I am still waiting for that to happen with ASL.

Most conventions I go to I am one of the youngest at 35, most are in the 60-70's range. I wish we would have a resurgence in these games but the things that make them so enjoyable are little appreciated by the younger generations.

You should see the 20+ year old player communities in China and Taiwan. This might not be over yet.

 

[Alan Hume]

Absolutely.

I have heard this repeated every year for the last 7 years and all I see are more and more people piling/ piling back into ASL. Hey as Mr Keynes famously said, "In the long run, we are all dead." I have no doubts that everything that lives, dies. But I am still waiting for that to happen with ASL.

You should see the 20+ year old player communities in China and Taiwan. This might not be over yet.

Thanks for sharing that Jackson, that's really encouraging

 

[holdit]

Have you tried anything by Paradox, Hearts of Iron, Europa Universalis, Victoria II. And i love the Total War Games!!!!!!!!!!

The strategic level doesn't really interest me. I've played The Operational Art of War a bit but never stuck with it. And I did own AH's Russian Front a long time ago. Apart from those, I prefer tactical play, or grand-tactical, for Napoleonics. I've had some great fun with the total War games, going back all the way to Shogun, but I used to get tired of them pretty quickly. The look gorgeous, of course, but you need to mod them heavily to get anything close to realism, and FoG 2, while not as sexy in the graphics department, does the realism much better, I think. Then again, FoG 2 is my first foray into ancients, so I'm not cursed with a lot of knowledge - probably a lot more than "the man on the Clapham Omnibus" , but definitely not grognard-level.

A funny story I read on some ancients forum years ago: a wargamer recounted how, having decided to dip his toe into ancients, want to his local wargame shop (yes, that long ago) to buy some Roman figures. "Certainly sir," said the helpful shopkeeper, "Are you looking for early republic, pre-Marian, post-Marian, late-republic, early empire or late empire?"
"Well," said the customer, "I was looking for the Romans with the red cloaks, crested helmets and rectangular shields."
"Ah!" said the shopkeeper wisely, "Hollywood Romans".

 

[nicky_longbranch]

Does anyone know what the largest ASL convention is today and the number of attendees? I would also ask that same question in 1987. I think we are doing better then are lowest but no where near our highest, if that makes sense. Yea, I think Saga gets a lot of stuff right in the total war games but the AI is just not up to snuff. Its the same old song every campaign and every battle. I wish I cold recommend Paradox's Imperator: ROME but it sucks. I will recommend highly is, GMT's Great Battles of History, which you probably know about and have played. Hearts of Iron IV is greeat if your into grand strategy. You should try company of heroes or close combat. Real good stuff.

 

[nicky_longbranch]

ASL is something special which is why it has a thriving community of die-hard fans. For what it is, there is nothing better. If you want to get an idea of what some of the choices and situations faced by those combatants in that time period..ASL is that game, at least in a two-dimensional space.

 

[Maurizizio]

Most conventions I go to I am one of the youngest at 35, most are in the 60-70's range. I wish we would have a resurgence in these games but the things that make them so enjoyable are little appreciated by the younger generations. I cannot see too many Youtubers and miecrafters putting in hours and hours just to learn how to play, and then dozens more actually playing.

See this picture.... just last week at an Italian gathering.... and he beat me!

 

[apbills]

I have no idea what is causing the delays in an eASLRB, but I am sure there are well over a couple dozen versions already made by people in the hobby. We have seen various snippets of these here, including one that was online and got a cease and desist order from MMP.

It is not technically challenging to create an html version, and it doesn't require more than a basic text editor for a basic version. Any browser has search capability built in as well so nothing special is needed. What is does require is time and effort.

Once you start adding to what is there, and what you want to be there, then it adds a layer of knowledge and resources required to do that extra, like if you want graphics you will need some kind of graphics programs, etc. To make something official, for sale, requires much more if only for the reasons of copyright protection and because the quality and capability is going to have to be at a level that people will pay for it. A basic, non-graphic version would never sell.

I have spent over 20 years playing with eASLRBs, first using the WinHelp capability and since 2011 an html version. It does what I want it to do, including all my TPP purchases, so it is far more integrated and complete than anything MMP would be able to produce (unless they joined with BFP, LFT, Lone Canuck, etc. to incorporate their products). On the other hand, it does not do a lot of the things others have done with their implementations, nor many of the things people have asked for in a product. One thing to remember is that the amount of product being generated potentially requires a lot of maintenance. Below is my "Version Control" record for my html version. That is a lot of time updating, adding, etc. and without that the eASLRB would become just as stale as the printed version. I love the game, so the time is not a problem, and given it is just for me, any deadlines for getting something completed are dictated by myself. (For instance, I see now that I listed Onslaught to Orsha 2 in my 7.2 version, yet I have not actually completed it as other non-ASL priorities have put it on the back burner for now). Bottom line, if you really desire an updated rulebook, you have the ability to have one and you don't need MMP to produce it. I do believe having one from MMP would help draw in more new players and through that help them as a business.

 

[nicky_longbranch]

Loving that father & son action. That is how I got into gaming, and like I said any younger people are usually brought in by their dad. That does not mean the hobbies growing thanks to younger players.

 

[Maurizizio]

Loving that father & son action. That is how I got into gaming, and like I said any younger people are usually brought in by their dad. That does not mean the hobbies growing thanks to younger players.

You misunderstood.... he is not my son...

 

[holdit]

You misunderstood.... he is not my son...

I like your avatar. i was in a replica of Leonardo's "tank" a couple of years ago in San Gimignano where it was exhibited in the garden of one of the torture museums. I'd love to see how ASL would handle it.

 

[Phillip]

Loving that father & son action. That is how I got into gaming, and like I said any younger people are usually brought in by their dad. That does not mean the hobbies growing thanks to younger players.

I'm 43 so not exactly youthful myself but as I've begun learning ASL over the last year I've been taking my 10 year old kid along with me. They've been immersed in boardgames since they were a toddler (not that ASL isn't still a bit of a stretch) and I'm very proud: they love ASL and hate Catan!