Why do you think/dislike Campaign Games?

hongkongwargamer

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When I first started off I was quite mystified by this whole business of campaign games.

Yes, I played the 5 part mini campaign game A19 Cat & Mouse but I couldn't quite wrap my head around the mechanics of the Refit Phase and how the whole thing work strategically.

I tried reading Chapter O .. but it's not until a grognard took me thru a Refit Phase when it starts to dawn on me. It did take a few more CGs before some of the ideas sink in.

I obviously can't say I am clear on the strategic implications of CPPs, initiatives, or even strategic locations and perimeter lines but I couldn't find too many articles out there that introduce newbies to the whole idea.

I'd like to hear from you - experienced and new folks alike .. Why do you like / dislike Campaign Games? What sets it apart?

I might even be able to craft a blog post from your responses - something that will layout what the "destination" look like so folks can decide on whether to take the trip down the road to campaign games or not.

Thanks

Warm regards,
Jack
 
Last edited:

Delirium

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Primarily, CG play allows for aadditional player agency:

- Whether to attack;
- When to attack (night or day);
- Most CGs have fairly broad VC objectives for a given date (such as 20 stone locations) which allows for considerable player latitude in determining precise objectives; and if course,
- Crafting one's force by making reinforcement purchases. A few assault engineers or many conscripts? Air support or INF guns. Delicious dilemmas.

A further advantage is the extent to which CG play emphasises studying and learning the topography. A well placed pillbox can be a thorn for several dates, for instance.

And of course, the importance of force preservation. Losing that 9-2 to a sniper becomes all the more devastating.
 

Delirium

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Another aspect which just occurred to me:

- As the defender, with HIP, mines, and other fortifications available, it's possible to lay quite complex traps for the enemy by inviting an attack in a certain area which is seemingly lightly defended. Fantastic when it works.
 

Helmseye

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having played only large games before ASL my first scenarios were from the General where you were able to choose some of the forces to be used

once I had the chance to learn and play the CG series of games I can honestly say I prefer them. Would always rather play a CG than a stand alone scenario, one of the things I like the most is to be involved in the purchasing of the units I get to use
 

Mr Incredible

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I like CGs in that they allow a long term approach to the game, not just a mad rush at the end of a scenario to win, but a methodical approach. In you lose a CG date it is not generally the end of the world, you can recover.

Love the flexibility in the purchase of units to allow the player to decide when to do what.

Idle and Attack chits also allow added decisions.
 

Sparafucil3

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Next turn, only 300 more turns of the same over the same terrain. HOW EXCITING! -- jim
 

Carln0130

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Let's see, fighting the game out over a historical map.
Not having to unrealistically commit forces for last minute dashes.
Buying the groceries, ie; within historical and CPP limits getting the forces you feel fit your plan best.
Seeing the course of a battle evolve through the guise of the game.
Fighting larger battles with greater context.
All that and a hell of a lot more.
 

sfcmikej

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Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move, Assault Move. Final Fire. 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +3, 20 +1, 30 +3, 20, +1, 30 +1.

Next turn, only 300 more turns of the same over the same terrain. HOW EXCITING! -- jim
So Jim, how do you really feel?

Mike
 

zgrose

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What I like about CGs:
Better maps (usually)
Strategic and tactical choices during play
Usually more toys than in scenarios
Bit more immersive experience

What I dislike:
Refit Phase rules that try to fit in the least amount of space than try to impart the most amount of useful information.
Somewhat gamey RePh mechanics that would *seem* to lead to more interesting tactical/strategic choices if they were done differently
CGs with too many CG Dates.
 

Gunner Scott

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I find it very rude that someone thread craps with their well known dislike for CG's. Yes Jim we get it, you don't like CG's, now be a good boy and be nice.

As for the OP Q, CG's can be frustrating at times especially if nothing goes right for two or three days IE it rains, you melf all your HMG's/ MMG's, pull red cards and so on. (yes this actually happened to me) so the fun factor goes down and it gets even worse if your opponent is abrasive and obnoxious during the game. I only wish there were more CG's that were set outside of the city.

Scott

So Jim, how do you really feel?

Mike
 

Yuri0352

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Às much as I would like to take the plunge, I just don't have the time or space to do the Red Barricades/KGP-sized CG's. Although I have no experience using it, I agree that the idea of refit and reinforcement phases seems very realistic compared to last turn 'go for broke' tactics.

I have really enjoyed the smaller CG's such as Gavutu-Tanambogo, or the El Alamein set in Journal 5. I haven't played it yet, but the Suicide Creek set looks very interesting as well.
 

volgaG68

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I find it very rude that someone thread craps with their well known dislike for CG's.
His "Assault Move/Kill Stack shot" spam would indicate he has never played Purple Heart Draw, Ozereyka Bay, et al. Heck, even Pegasus Bridge isn't stagnant like that. I will somewhat agree with him regarding RB, VotG, and FB; however I have found plenty of other 'maneuver' CGs out there to whet my appetite.
 

volgaG68

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..... I agree that the idea of refit and reinforcement phases seems very realistic compared to last turn 'go for broke' tactics.
I have actually found the last turn 'go for broke' tactics exist even in CGs, but not until the final date, if at all. One playing of PHD and one of PB CGI both came down to last scenario-last turn suicide tactics, but this was due to how well balanced the play was to get to that point with that opponent. Unless played very tightly with a comparable opponent, most CGs leave last turn suicide tactics completely out of reach.
 

Binko

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I tend to dislike the standard style of large CGs. Stretching a squad level game up to a large multi-day campaign is simply out of scale, in my opinion. You just have a long string of tactical actions without any of the command and supply constraints that larger formations had to suffer. It's like moving a mountain of dirt using 100 guys with wheelbarrows and no supervision rather than using a few well managed excavators. :)

I also can't wrap my head around the concept of sweeping the board clear between campaign dates. It feels like it negates any advantage you are building up, adds to the CG logisitics, and makes it impossible to make long term plans.

What I DO like are some of the innovative things that 3rd Party Publishers are doing with small CGs. Lone Canuck's small CGs on historical maps that feature a series of engagements over a single day is much more in keeping with the scale of ASL, in my opinion. The new Burma pack from the St. Louis guys also looks great with a series of linked scenarios on a smallish historical map. I'd like to see more stuff like this.

But many players I know simply love big CGs. And I think that's great. ASL is a big expansive gaming tent and one of it's strengths is that there are a multitude of different types of scenerios and CGs to play.
 

Sparafucil3

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I find it very rude that someone thread craps with their well known dislike for CG's. Yes Jim we get it, you don't like CG's, now be a good boy and be nice.
I was asked a question. I answered. We knew of your love for CH before you hated them. That didn't stop you from creating 100 accounts to make sure we knew through all your bans. Did I ever tell you to shut up? -- jim
 

Sparafucil3

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His "Assault Move/Kill Stack shot" spam would indicate he has never played Purple Heart Draw, Ozereyka Bay, et al. Heck, even Pegasus Bridge isn't stagnant like that. I will somewhat agree with him regarding RB, VotG, and FB; however I have found plenty of other 'maneuver' CGs out there to whet my appetite.
I have played PHD. I have Ozerekya Bay. Pegasus Bridge is not much different than RB/VotG/FB. It has some chrome, but seriously, CG's are like a Buick. They will get you from point A to B, but they are boring as hell. Can't stand them.

The biggest problem with CG is they are SLOW. They feel like they drag on forever. Here's a hint: if you ever really want to be beat me, slow down. Make it take forever. I will resign and move on eventually. Life is too short to play bad ASL (and CG's are the worst part of ASL IMO. YMMV). -- jim
 

Gunner Scott

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Why thread crap? Why not just be positive instead of bitter? We get it, you don't like this game anymore, so why bother to continuously thread crap?

Scott

I was asked a question. I answered. We knew of your love for CH before you hated them. That didn't stop you from creating 100 accounts to make sure we knew through all your bans. Did I ever tell you to shut up? -- jim
 

Carln0130

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I have actually found the last turn 'go for broke' tactics exist even in CGs, but not until the final date, if at all. One playing of PHD and one of PB CGI both came down to last scenario-last turn suicide tactics, but this was due to how well balanced the play was to get to that point with that opponent. Unless played very tightly with a comparable opponent, most CGs leave last turn suicide tactics completely out of reach.
Agreed. They exist. However, as you say, they are far more infrequent.
 

Sparafucil3

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Why thread crap? Why not just be positive instead of bitter? We get it, you don't like this game anymore, so why bother to continuously thread crap?

Scott
I answered a question. Don't want my opinion, don't ask. Why didn't you just go away when you were told you were no longer welcome here. The answer to both questions is the same. -- jim
 
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