Why do you buy Critical Hit products? (anonymous poll)

Why do you buy Critical Hit products? (please select up to THREE answers)

  • I am more or less a completist and just can't help myself.

    Votes: 4 4.4%
  • I believe that Critical Hit makes high quality products.

    Votes: 6 6.6%
  • I can't help buying a CH product if it is on a subject that interests me.

    Votes: 33 36.3%
  • I get entranced by the counters and/or maps.

    Votes: 26 28.6%
  • I generally just use them as game kits for design your own scenarios.

    Votes: 8 8.8%
  • I mostly play solitaire and things like balance don't matter to me.

    Votes: 19 20.9%
  • The errata, development and playtesting issues, real or alleged, simply are not a big deal to me.

    Votes: 12 13.2%
  • Sometimes I just want to spend money on ASL.

    Votes: 12 13.2%
  • It is easier to find Critical Hit products than some other ASL-related products.

    Votes: 6 6.6%
  • They do products on esoteric subjects.

    Votes: 39 42.9%
  • Critical Hit products can't be as bad as people say they are

    Votes: 9 9.9%
  • I don't really know why; I just keep buying them.

    Votes: 3 3.3%

  • Total voters
    91

Martin Mayers

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I don't support CH! for the same reasons I don't support any company that behaves, in my view, unethically.
That applies especially to ASL related companies & products. I like to think of ASL, it's legit publishers and loyal fans as a kind of brotherhood; where trust and decent relationships matter.
Depressing thread really huh?
 

Houlie

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Curious why the poll numbers don't add up to 100%. Is this part of the “new math”? :rolleyes:
Ha. Reminds of a politician's quote from the past couple days: "It's not about the numbers, it's about value..."

Numbers schmumbers!
 

daniel zucker

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Daniel Zucker,
I had submitted two Platoon Leader CG's to CH back around 1997-98 and made sure I had a contract as well as patent on my work.
Neither one got used, mainly because it meant I would have had to do all the playtesting,design, etc. so nothing came of it (as CH stating they would "help" really did not entail such), but at least my work was not taken and redesigned for publication.
Worked out for the best any way, in 2003 sent it in to MMP as part of initial work on Forgotten War module, and Ken Katz used some of my material in design of that module and he remembered me by listing my name on the back of FW box, so was quite pleased to have that credit. Thanks, Ken!
Sorry you got misled by CH, would have liked to have seen your work.
Good for you. In my case they took advantage of me. Once a company does something I don't like I don't buy there product or use there services. I vote with my wallet.
 

Paul_RS

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Back in the day it took millennia to get AH to publish new ASL material. A lot of talented designers had spent years on their pet projects, designing, play testing them etc. CH saw a gap in the market that could speed up that process and relieve the frustration and impatience for those designers. The early products that were submitted by those people were picked up by CH and published, the problem arises when the initial tranche of releases is exhausted and the business model cannot be sustained. What to do? Well,we all know what happened next. Tweak, rename, recycle. Even when designs are submitted they still require further work an development. The OCS design Hungarian Rhapsody took around 7 years work before it was published. I get the feeling that with CH raw designs that are submitted go straight to the printer.

I have bought CH products in the past, but not for many, many years.
Why not? Prices are beyond ridiculous, deceitful marketing practices (if a company tells me that a product is boxed I assume that the box in question is not the box it was posted in) arbitrary changes to scenarios that clearly could not have been playtested.

The quality of the maps and counters are actually good ( not a fan of the newer card map sections for the historical modules, though) also the counters for the most part are superfluous to the system. Some modules have now been reissued 5 or 6 times or more under different names with minor tweaks. I have zero confidence that anything nowadays is actually being playtested or subject to any post submission development.
There are other TPP offering better value for money and where the buyer can be confident that the scenarios and campaign games have been tested and that time and effort has been put into the historical research for those products.

CH won’t be seeing any more of my money, that’s for sure. Pretty certain that, other than legacy stock, no U.K. retailers actually stock CH products.

cheers

Paul
 

Actionjick

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Back in the day it took millennia to get AH to publish new ASL material. A lot of talented designers had spent years on their pet projects, designing, play testing them etc. CH saw a gap in the market that could speed up that process and relieve the frustration and impatience for those designers. The early products that were submitted by those people were picked up by CH and published, the problem arises when the initial tranche of releases is exhausted and the business model cannot be sustained. What to do? Well,we all know what happened next. Tweak, rename, recycle. Even when designs are submitted they still require further work an development. The OCS design Hungarian Rhapsody took around 7 years work before it was published. I get the feeling that with CH raw designs that are submitted go straight to the printer.

I have bought CH products in the past, but not for many, many years.
Why not? Prices are beyond ridiculous, deceitful marketing practices (if a company tells me that a product is boxed I assume that the box in question is not the box it was posted in) arbitrary changes to scenarios that clearly could not have been playtested.

The quality of the maps and counters are actually good ( not a fan of the newer card map sections for the historical modules, though) also the counters for the most part are superfluous to the system. Some modules have now been reissued 5 or 6 times or more under different names with minor tweaks. I have zero confidence that anything nowadays is actually being playtested or subject to any post submission development.
There are other TPP offering better value for money and where the buyer can be confident that the scenarios and campaign games have been tested and that time and effort has been put into the historical research for those products.

CH won’t be seeing any more of my money, that’s for sure. Pretty certain that, other than legacy stock, no U.K. retailers actually stock CH products.

cheers

Paul
I've never bought any TPP game so I can't comment on CH or any of the others. However I will comment on your statement tha bitd it took AH millenia to release new ASL modules.

Doing a quick count AH released 13 ASL modules between 1985 and 1998. That's about one a year and doesn't include the Annuals. That doesn't seem like too slow a pace to me.

Lol I realize in these modern times one module released a year will not satisfy the insatiable appetite for new ASL that modern players seem to have. Life was just a little slower wbitd. 😉
 

Hutch

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Life was just a little slower wbitd.
Life was slower or are we the ones that have slowed down...? :)
 

Actionjick

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Fish and I had no interest in TPPs. We were quite happy with Red Barricades.

Ray used to come to Oktoberfest but I haven't seen him for decades.

Part of my disillusionment with ASL wbitd was the prospect of TPPs putting out actual modules. I felt that it was AH's product and they should be the ones profiting from their investment and labors.
Regardless I am hijacking this thread and will continue any further thoughts on TPPs in my home port. Shanghai.
 

TopT

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Fish and I had no interest in TPPs. We were quite happy with Red Barricades.

Ray used to come to Oktoberfest but I haven't seen him for decades.

Part of my disillusionment with ASL wbitd was the prospect of TPPs putting out actual modules. I felt that it was AH's product and they should be the ones profiting from their investment and labors.
Regardless I am hijacking this thread and will continue any further thoughts on TPPs in my home port. Shanghai.
The problem with that is that once AH folded, the TPP's are the only thing that kept ASL alive. If not for TPP's, ASL would have died a long time ago.
 

Actionjick

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The problem with that is that once AH folded, the TPP's are the only thing that kept ASL alive. If not for TPP's, ASL would have died a long time ago.
I agree the value of TPPs to the continued popularity of ASL cannot be discounted. However we quit playing ASL when AH was still around. Back then their positive impact on the game was yet to be known.

Lol I will just stick to threads on topics that I have no opinions about.
 

Paul_RS

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I've never bought any TPP game so I can't comment on CH or any of the others. However I will comment on your statement tha bitd it took AH millenia to release new ASL modules.

Doing a quick count AH released 13 ASL modules between 1985 and 1998. That's about one a year and doesn't include the Annuals. That doesn't seem like too slow a pace to me.

Lol I realize in these modern times one module released a year will not satisfy the insatiable appetite for new ASL that modern players seem to have. Life was just a little slower wbitd. 😉
Yeah, it was kind of a tongue in cheek statement, from the viewpoint of impatient and frustrated designers. 👍🏻
 

Robin Reeve

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In many areas fan made mags or publications can be seen as a sign of the success of the original thing.
Far from harming the latter, they work as a living advertisement to it and stimulate innovation from the gate holder.
ASL is the wargame with the most dynamic fandom production, with some well organised TPP. I don't think many of them make a lot of profit - if they do I don't care.
VASL itself has been a major fandom creation, which has spilled out of the ASL micro universe to benefit hundreds of other wargames.
So TPP are certainly not a threat to MMP.
And even if someone sticks to the official products, they will play fan made scenarios the AH/MMP recycled in their publication loop (Tactiques, Dispatches from the Bunker, Le Franc-Tireur, Friendly Fire, etc. have fed the stream of AH/MMP Annuals, Journals and Action Packs).

As of CH, it is interesting - and quite expected - to see that the OP question is hardly addressed in this thread, but that most people explain why they DON'T buy their products.
The fact that we hardly see any of that negative view for other TPP is telling.
And when someone believes that it is mostly due to some anti-CH propaganda or lobbying, I would tend to think that it is a paranoid view of the situation from somebody who cannot or won't face the fact that there is a real problem.
Most of us have actually tried CH.
And stopped after some bad experience.

However, I would say that CH did contribute in the success of ASL at its beginnings. Perhaps a little now - just by making the game visible - but with so many extremely debatable ways of proceeding, that the negatives outweigh massively the positives.
 

Philippe D.

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Doing a quick count AH released 13 ASL modules between 1985 and 1998. That's about one a year and doesn't include the Annuals. That doesn't seem like too slow a pace to me.
I have not checked the Annuals, but IIRC, the original AH modules each had a grand total of 8 scenarios - perhaps some had 10.

Of course the design work of AH went way beyond the scenarios, but in this regard, the total output of the AH years is rather low. Scenario-wise, each AH module is the equivalent of a Friendly Fire pack (not that I'm out to belittle the work of our Swedish friends - I like their designs!)
 

Whiskers1123

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I'm back after being kicked off by the communists for replying to Gunner Scott's negative post. Just wondering, did he get booted also or was it just me because I'm not a CH hater?
 

Jazz

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I'm back after being kicked off by the communists for replying to Gunner Scott's negative post. Just wondering, did he get booted also or was it just me because I'm not a CH hater?
Pffffft! "Communist" is so 20th Century. You need to catch up.

Did not realize you got booted. Seems that both you and Scott showed about the same level of activity lately that I could see so mayhaps he got booted as well?
 

Jazz

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I suspect you didn't get booted for being a CH supporter :D
If memory serves, it had absolutely nothing to do with CH.... It had more to do with a disparaging comment regarding the vaccination regime where Scott resides that wuz (correctly) determined to be political....which the management of GameSquad has explicitly said is verbotten.
 
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Whiskers1123

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Well, the reason I was given was that it was political. Funny, there was nothing political about it but that's the way those Communists do things. I'll probably get ousted again for speaking out against the Communist Dictatorship that runs this place. I'm done venting!
 

Robin Reeve

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Well, the reason I was given was that it was political. Funny, there was nothing political about it but that's the way those Communists do things.
Warning : you are going political and insulting the moderators.
You were sanctioned for being xenophobic too - not speaking of being outright insulting.
You are very near to a more severe sanction than a one week ban.
 
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