Why do you buy Critical Hit products? (anonymous poll)

Why do you buy Critical Hit products? (please select up to THREE answers)

  • I am more or less a completist and just can't help myself.

    Votes: 4 4.4%
  • I believe that Critical Hit makes high quality products.

    Votes: 6 6.7%
  • I can't help buying a CH product if it is on a subject that interests me.

    Votes: 33 36.7%
  • I get entranced by the counters and/or maps.

    Votes: 26 28.9%
  • I generally just use them as game kits for design your own scenarios.

    Votes: 8 8.9%
  • I mostly play solitaire and things like balance don't matter to me.

    Votes: 19 21.1%
  • The errata, development and playtesting issues, real or alleged, simply are not a big deal to me.

    Votes: 12 13.3%
  • Sometimes I just want to spend money on ASL.

    Votes: 11 12.2%
  • It is easier to find Critical Hit products than some other ASL-related products.

    Votes: 6 6.7%
  • They do products on esoteric subjects.

    Votes: 39 43.3%
  • Critical Hit products can't be as bad as people say they are

    Votes: 9 10.0%
  • I don't really know why; I just keep buying them.

    Votes: 3 3.3%

  • Total voters
    90

thedrake

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2003
Messages
1,333
Reaction score
431
Location
Picayune, MS
Country
llUnited States
I only buy CH items that interest me and is not being produced elsewhere. The last CH item I purchased was Utah Beach and Rarities 3 (German captured ordnance.)
 

bprobst

Elder Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2003
Messages
2,447
Reaction score
1,280
Location
Melbourne, Australia
First name
Bruce
Country
llAustralia
I stopped buying CH stuff around 4 years ago and saved myself in excess of $14,000 he has released over500 items in that time .
I think you'll find that there are maybe 20 "new" items in that period, made available in 100 different formats (and all of them bad).
 

hongkongwargamer

Forum Guru
Joined
Apr 4, 2013
Messages
6,650
Reaction score
4,330
Location
.. beneath the Pale Moonlight
Country
llZimbabwe
Oddly, this page popped up in google when I was doing a search for something related to ASL, so here I am...5 years late. 😁

Anyway, why do people care how other's spend their money? Go buy all the ASL stuff you want, as long as you get enjoyment from it. I find it a strange phenomenon.

And yes, I've bought some CH stuff, never at retail, either off Ebay or using a 30% off code.
I only care if :
  • there are innocent bystanders about and I don't want them to be misguided and form a bad impression of the hobby.
  • you are good person worthy of my respect and hence my time.
Otherwise, rich folks throwing money at bad stuff happens all the time (read: first world issues). More money to CH means less money to other bad stuff. It's twisted way to save the world. Have at it!
 

goatleaf1

Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2011
Messages
64
Reaction score
67
Location
Bridport, Dorset
Country
ll
I buy occasionally from CH. As somebody said previously, they occasionally produce stuff that grabs my interest and are not done much by other companies. For me, CH's strengths are historical maps, the mega hex map sets such as Omaha, Berlin and Tarawa and finally their counter sets. I am afraid I am not one of those who glory in the continuation of monochrome counters - not sure how MMP get away with it given that every other game series/company went colour several decades ago. Not just CH, I buy ASL stuff occasionally from just about all the providers - just pre-ordered Prokhorovka from Advancing Fire, never bought anything from them before. Surely it's a case of horses for courses, nobody forces anybody to buy anything and I really dislike the knee jerk anti reaction to CH which has been going on for years and now seems like some dreadful forewarning of the sickness of political correctness where truths are ignored and replaced by unquestioning dogma.
 

hongkongwargamer

Forum Guru
Joined
Apr 4, 2013
Messages
6,650
Reaction score
4,330
Location
.. beneath the Pale Moonlight
Country
llZimbabwe
My favorite (old) CH stuff:
  • Berlin, though with a revamped/improved CG
  • Those Bloody Ragged Heros
  • Dien Bien Phu
  • Some of the old CH scenarios
And I look forward to trying Guerra Civil.

What I REALLY dislike, is the dreadfully sick readiness of some to politicize anything they come across, where truths are ignored and replaced by unquestioning dogma.
 

bprobst

Elder Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2003
Messages
2,447
Reaction score
1,280
Location
Melbourne, Australia
First name
Bruce
Country
llAustralia
the knee jerk anti reaction to CH which has been going on for years
You're prepared to complain about it, but not spend any time thinking about why it's even a thing? The general negative reaction to CH products is not "knee-jerk", it's based on decades of actual experience.

Not every debate has two equal sides. The Flat-Earthers are wrong, and the strength of their (absurd) convictions doesn't change that.
 

goatleaf1

Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2011
Messages
64
Reaction score
67
Location
Bridport, Dorset
Country
ll
No, it is knee jerk. Let me explain. The mob denigrate CH in absolute terms, across the board and automatically every time their name is mentioned like a bunch of pop up automatons. This is like something out of the 1968 Chinese Cultural Revolution, now rightly regarded as bonkers by even the Chinese. CH have made a ton of products over decades. Are you seriously suggesting that they are ALL rubbish? Statistically unlikely isn't it? But dogma deems them to be so.

The other giveaway is that nobody forces anyone to buy CH products so the vociferous response can only be explained by some emotional reaction akin to burning witches.

No wonder the world is in the grip of censorious social media companies and political correctness - clearly that type of "only one opinion is correct and allowed" has many natural supporters.
 

von Marwitz

Forum Guru
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
12,930
Reaction score
7,643
Location
Kraut Corner
Country
llGibraltar
Before the advent of BFP and LFT and more frequent publications by MMP, I have bought some of CH's old stuff.
Never directly from CH, never at the original price.

Some of the old scenario packs were good, some weren't. With regard other stuff, I found BFP/LFT markedly and reliably better than CH. CH can be good at map art, CH was innovative in counters, but others have caught up (at minimum). Rules, playtesting, and balance are not the strengths of CH for the most part. You found (and probably still can find) some gems among CH's publications but the issue of half-baked or rehashed stuff is real.

Since nowadays there is so much new ASL stuff around each and every year and I am not a completist, I have stopped buying CH.

von Marwitz
 

lluis61

Senior Member
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2017
Messages
355
Reaction score
324
Location
Barcelona
First name
Luis
Country
llSpain
I do buy CH stuff. Sometimes because I read the commendations in "Desperation Morale" stating that are good products, and so, I want to get them a try (DM doesn't condemn to hell all the CH products); sometimes because the theme interests me (for example, Westerplatte, above all after viewing the Polish film of the same title and examining the map of the HASLM and find pretty true to what I saw); and sometimes because I cconsider myself as a scenario designer without enough time to twenty or thirty-times to playtest my scenarios, but I consider the counters useful with my designing. So, I'm a buyer of consolidated good products by CH, or good historical maps, or counters I am curious to test (but no Dutch Trucks). In no way I buy anything from CH without a proper reflexion, though.
 

Philippe D.

Elder Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2016
Messages
1,855
Reaction score
1,034
Location
Bordeaux
Country
llFrance
Are you seriously suggesting that they are ALL rubbish? Statistically unlikely isn't it? But dogma deems them to be so.
I am not going to discuss whether all of CH's (recent) products are rubbish, because that's not the issue. Plus, since I have bought none in, at the very least, the last 15 years, I don't have any first-hand experience.

If I have read, say, 3 books by a given author (or seen 3 movies from a given director, or whatever), and found them to be rubbish, I am unlikely to buy the next one. Is it possible that some if his books are good? Well, sure it is. But unless I was unable to get my reading from another source, I would avoid the author. Even with an author for which I found that half of his books were bad, most likely I'd stop reading his books - a 50% chance is not good enough.

So, it is not necessary to be sure that all of CH's products are bad to reasonably avoid buying them; just that a high enough (and the threshold is likely to vary from one person to the next) proportion are bad, should be enough.

So, people who advise against buying any of CH's stuff (not even discussing business practices) need not believe that all of their stuff is bad. They just have to believe that the chances are high enough that a given product is bad.
 

Whiskers1123

Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2012
Messages
432
Reaction score
198
Location
Arizona
Country
llUnited States
You haven't bought anything from CH in the last 15 years but you know all the stuff is bad because someone else said it was. Just like all the CH haters. You people make me sick. Why did you start this thread anyway, it's been a while so lets bring out all the CH haters.
 

Honza

The Art Of Wargames
Joined
Dec 30, 2005
Messages
13,168
Reaction score
1,811
Location
Oxfordshire
First name
Jan
Country
llCzechia
Speaking of CH they have been pretty quiet for a while now. No huge influx of new releases.
 

bprobst

Elder Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2003
Messages
2,447
Reaction score
1,280
Location
Melbourne, Australia
First name
Bruce
Country
llAustralia
No, it is knee jerk. Let me explain.
You should not participate in an argument if you don't understand what words mean.

People who disagree with you are not "the mob". They are people who disagree with you. They have reasons for disagreeing with you. You don't have to accept their reasons if you don't want to, but claiming that their reasons are automatically worthless, without even wondering why that might be the case, is in fact a classic example of "knee jerk".

Decades of experience, my friend. Decades of experience, and literally hundreds of individuals all sharing that same experience. Sure, we must be a thoughtless mob. What other possible explanation could there be?
 

Manilianus

His Royal Fubar
Joined
Oct 18, 2008
Messages
2,437
Reaction score
479
Location
Warsaw, Poland
First name
Michael
Country
llPoland
I never bought any of the CH stuff, mostly due to price range and mixed opinions I've heard about their scenario quality. Not sure if it's true or not, probably they have better and worse products, but I stick to AH/MMP. I'm slightly leaning towards LFT and BFP, solely because of the Polish-themed packs/modules (BFP's "Poland in Flames" and LFT's upcoming Warsaw uprising module) - but I'm afraid to make a jump yet, since completing an up-to-date official ASL stuff takes some time and money already.

If I'd inherit a small fortune and large house, I probably wouldn't hesitate to go full-collector mode and buy every TPP product out there.
 

Vinnie

See Dummies in the index
Joined
Feb 9, 2005
Messages
16,743
Reaction score
2,549
Location
Aberdeen , Scotland
Country
llUnited Kingdom
Speaking of CH they have been pretty quiet for a while now. No huge influx of new releases.
They seem to be cranking out counter sets at the moment. The numbers of products is still high but nothing I've seen recently has made me go "oh! I must have that!"
Besides, there is so much coming out just now, I can't play even 10% of it.
 

Vinnie

See Dummies in the index
Joined
Feb 9, 2005
Messages
16,743
Reaction score
2,549
Location
Aberdeen , Scotland
Country
llUnited Kingdom
One of my problems with a lot of recent maps (not just CH!) is that they are geographically true but do not play true. I've ranted enough about narrow streets to not need to repeat here but often maps need tweaked away from what was on the ground to make the game and scenario playable.
 

morgan kane

Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
143
Reaction score
21
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
Country
llSweden
So how is then the scenario quality in general from CH? I have (so far) played 53 scenarios published by CH. Most of them have been fun and well balanced, one or two have been dogs. The disadvantage is the lack of proofing so I am in contact with Ray from time to time. He always responds in a friendly way. The advantage is that with CH you get an enhanced experience of what ASL can offer. A lot of HASL, Korea (long before MMP), Middle East 1948, Algeria 1958, Ethiopia 1936, a bunch of dessert scenarios etc. But due to the dollar, the US Post ridiculous pricing and the pricing from CH itself I buy very few items from CH nowadays.
 
Last edited:

von Marwitz

Forum Guru
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
12,930
Reaction score
7,643
Location
Kraut Corner
Country
llGibraltar
All I can say is buyer beware.
I will not comment on this judgement.

Let me remark, though, as far as I understand it, Gunner Scott has been among the ones around here, who has not only bought a LOT of CH stuff but also actually played more of it than most others in this forum. At least this was my impression following his posts on CH over the past years.

If I am wrong on this, please correct me.

von Marwitz
 

Vinnie

See Dummies in the index
Joined
Feb 9, 2005
Messages
16,743
Reaction score
2,549
Location
Aberdeen , Scotland
Country
llUnited Kingdom
So how is then the scenario quality in general from CH? I have (so far) played 47 scenarios published by CH. Most of them have been fun and well balanced, one or two have been dogs. The disadvantage is the lack of proofing so I am in contact with Ray from time to time. He always responds in a friendly way. The advantage is that with CH you get an enhanced experience of what ASL can offer. A lot of HASL, Korea (long before MMP), Middle East 1948, Algeria 1958, Ethiopia 1936, a bunch of dessert scenarios etc. But due to the dollar, the US Post ridiculous pricing and the pricing from CH itself I buy very few items from CH nowadays.
The bestbof CH! is very very good but their production rate is so high that you might get 20 scenarios of which 2 are great, 3 are decent, 10 are meh and the rest unplayable.
Given I tend to only manage to play 3 or 4 out of a pack, I don't have time to risk it.
 
Top