Why do you buy Critical Hit products? (anonymous poll)

Why do you buy Critical Hit products? (please select up to THREE answers)

  • I am more or less a completist and just can't help myself.

    Votes: 4 4.4%
  • I believe that Critical Hit makes high quality products.

    Votes: 6 6.6%
  • I can't help buying a CH product if it is on a subject that interests me.

    Votes: 33 36.3%
  • I get entranced by the counters and/or maps.

    Votes: 26 28.6%
  • I generally just use them as game kits for design your own scenarios.

    Votes: 8 8.8%
  • I mostly play solitaire and things like balance don't matter to me.

    Votes: 19 20.9%
  • The errata, development and playtesting issues, real or alleged, simply are not a big deal to me.

    Votes: 12 13.2%
  • Sometimes I just want to spend money on ASL.

    Votes: 12 13.2%
  • It is easier to find Critical Hit products than some other ASL-related products.

    Votes: 6 6.6%
  • They do products on esoteric subjects.

    Votes: 39 42.9%
  • Critical Hit products can't be as bad as people say they are

    Votes: 9 9.9%
  • I don't really know why; I just keep buying them.

    Votes: 3 3.3%

  • Total voters
    91

olli

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I used to be in the I'd buy a CH product if I had an interest in the battle/situation. I was not overly concerned with play balance. I did like counters and nice maps though. But with all the reprints and 2nd editions I have not picked up a CH product in a while. And the price of the items I might buy just seem too high for what I would get.
I have not bought any of the retreads in ages, I do still buy new never been covered by CH or anybody else items tho .
 

Tater

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What I think is interesting is If you take the poll questions and replace CH with HOB, BFP, LCP, etc., I don't think the results would change all that much!
I most definitely disagree! The behavior of CH and it's owner has made them a lightening rod for criticism. CH is the worst case example of how a TPP takes advantage of MMP paying the real bills for ASL. Not only does CH take advantage of the situation, they don't bring a lot to the table.
 
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witchbottles

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I most definitely disagree! The behavior of CH and it's owner has made them a lightening rod for criticism. CH is the worst case example of how a TPP takes advantage of MMP paying the real bills for ASL. Not only does CH take advantage of the situation, they don't bring a lot to the table.
I'm fine with everything except the last part...

Too many decent products, old and new, mixed in with the usual garbage. Ray's screwing the public with his "renaming camouflage" ; lack of proofing; desire to get something out even if its NOT ready yet; and hiding all the above mixed in with the usual quality control items any of the producers have ( errata, misprinted map items, missing contents in the box, etc.)

His failings to the detriment of the players is the desire to hide all the above rather than acknowledge and improve - and to cause many waves with unresolved content issues that go on for some time before resolution.

There is nothing wrong with Brian Martuzas " Counterattacks 1 and 2" in quality. they are available nowhere else but CH. Sop if you want the quality, you either pay the price or order with discounts or via the secondhand market to get it without the 80 dollar sticker price.

(Just a recent example, not singling Tooz out for anything other than well-deserved praise for a nice pair of scenario packs.)
Ch brings a decent amount to the table - they just have a person in the driver's seat who doesn't care about customer satisfaction issues at all.

Hate the player, not the game.

KRL, Jon H
 

AZslim

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My problem is I can't over what appears to be pure underhandedness. These products are taken by Ray and shoved out the as fast as possible merely to make a buck. The packs are resold as version 2 and even renamed and resold after the customers have essentially playtested the product and paid CH to do it.

I will not support this.
 

Proff3RTR

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David with your VASL work you should never have to buy any *real* ASL product MMP, BFP, LFT, LCP, SP, DB, FrF should send you a free copy of everything they make. Doubt this happens but it should.
My problem is I can't over what appears to be pure underhandedness. These products are taken by Ray and shoved out the as fast as possible merely to make a buck. The packs are resold as version 2 and even renamed and resold after the customers have essentially playtested the product and paid CH to do it.

I will not support this.
This I feel is the crux of the matter, I have never bought a CH product from CH, and I think I never will unless the subject is so deep rooted in my ww2 'Like a lot' list, so that narrows it down to Kursk and Stalingrad. I can live with dodgy background history to a point (I am thinking Battle for the square here straight away), I can live with stuff being re-hashed (to a certain degree) but what kills it for me 100% is the lack of integrity and prices, this is after all compressed cardboard and heavy stock paper we are talking about, and the price CH charge is simply insane.
To that end I only buy stuff after checking Mark's DM site, and then only after a long hard think if the subject interests me (see above).

Perry
 

tmanmerlin

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Their prices have just gone out of the roof, even with the rolling %30 coupon. But some of the stuff is cool.
 

witchbottles

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Their prices have just gone out of the roof, even with the rolling %30 coupon. But some of the stuff is cool.
Running a print on demand setup is necessarily expensive in inventory and stock - and carries additional burdens of fluctuations in material and machine repair /replacement costs ,as well as floating and ever increasing postage / shipping costs. This is not going to change, RT did the switch to Print on demand, he'll not be going back.
 

BW92

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I know some who post here have issues with CH, that being said - why wouldn't you buy CH?
Their system is good, their counters and maps are excellent, If you email Ray with a legit question he will answer you promptly, Maureen is a sweetie...

Being in the war game hobby (& business ...I have done Dev work) for decades - I know people get weird about things... but CH is a definite asset to anyone in this hobby.

Ford, Chevy, Mopar... they are all good.
 

Proff3RTR

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I know some who post here have issues with CH, that being said - why wouldn't you buy CH?
Their system is good, their counters and maps are excellent, If you email Ray with a legit question he will answer you promptly, Maureen is a sweetie...

Being in the war game hobby (& business ...I have done Dev work) for decades - I know people get weird about things... but CH is a definite asset to anyone in this hobby.

Ford, Chevy, Mopar... they are all good.
Clearly your business dealings with CH are in the minority, CH over charge, turn our rehashed modules, theirs and others, Play Testing is well, hit and miss, and a host of other problems. Ray brings nothing to this hobby, not these days anyhow.
 

BW92

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Well, I have been around game forums long enough to understand people have strong opinions (and usually for a reason), but I also believe that - personal likes and dislikes aside..everyone brings something good to the table.

I'm not a basher' of anyone, I just think that after all these years - everyone who delivers a product brings something good to the community.

Cheers :)
 

Robin Reeve

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I know some who post here have issues with CH, that being said - why wouldn't you buy CH?
Their system is good, their counters and maps are excellent, If you email Ray with a legit question he will answer you promptly, Maureen is a sweetie...

Being in the war game hobby (& business ...I have done Dev work) for decades - I know people get weird about things... but CH is a definite asset to anyone in this hobby.

Ford, Chevy, Mopar... they are all good.
Your propaganda is not subtle enough. CH is a liability for ASL, mostly. There were acceptable products in the old times, but tons of very bad ones since a decade.
I stopped purchasing their products for years now, because there are much better TPP around - and even if there were not, I was very disappointed by the extremely approximative quality of the last publications that I purchased.
ASL is not just maps and counters. It is about well playtested scenarios. When I purchase a scenario pack, I am not looking for a sand box.
 

BW92

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Caveat Emptor?
I'm really not on their payroll... kinda flattering - but sad to say no.

I bought CH's ATS sys for all the North African Campaign some years ago - I had no issues with it personally, I recently (and enthusiastically) bought GW/ASL modules 1,2,& 3, as well as Hindenburg line (the last named yet to be shipped)... again no issues.

I certainly have no issues with them. Yes they can be considered 'pricey'... C'est la vie, I don't mind.

It's clear others among you have issues - that's ok too.
 

Jeffhew

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Caveat Emptor?
I'm really not on their payroll... kinda flattering - but sad to say no.

I bought CH's ATS sys for all the North African Campaign some years ago - I had no issues with it personally, I recently (and enthusiastically) bought GW/ASL modules 1,2,& 3, as well as Hindenburg line (the last named yet to be shipped)... again no issues.

I certainly have no issues with them. Yes they can be considered 'pricey'... C'est la vie, I don't mind.

It's clear others among you have issues - that's ok too.
Welcome to the ASL community. :)
Pretty much everyone has issues with CH in general, and Tapio specifically. A little research into the history of Critical Hit's relationship with ASL, MMP, and the ASL community in general might sway your opinion. This isn't something that just came up a week ago, it's close to a couple of decades of history. Few here would be "flattered" to be mentioned in the same breath with Ray Tapio. Some of their early stuff is indeed good, but that was a long time ago. You can read reviews of all of their ASL offerings on the Desperation Morale website and judge for yourself.
Best Regards,
Jeff
 

aneil1234

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My choice is not there either

I Buy CH SCENARIO PACKS because they were designed and playtested by people OTHER than CH
They just printed CH
ASL NEWS is a prime example
 

witchbottles

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Welcome to the ASL community. :)
Pretty much everyone has issues with CH in general, and Tapio specifically. A little research into the history of Critical Hit's relationship with ASL, MMP, and the ASL community in general might sway your opinion. This isn't something that just came up a week ago, it's close to a couple of decades of history. Few here would be "flattered" to be mentioned in the same breath with Ray Tapio. Some of their early stuff is indeed good, but that was a long time ago. You can read reviews of all of their ASL offerings on the Desperation Morale website and judge for yourself.
Best Regards,
Jeff
First BW welcome to GS.

Second, I am going to sue Jeff's post to jump off , as I have noted many time previously, there are many more recent works by CH that are interesting, decently designed and playtested, and have some bang for buck ( how much still depends on the discount you may receive from CH). Pel WB 1; Counterattacks 1 and 2; Bandenkrieg; Panther Line; all are well worth the trouble to own if one can get them at below super-markup pricing that we typically see from Ray Tapio.

Ray is not going to lower MSRP - he is on a print on demand publishing system, inherently more costly than either P500 or speculative set print runs. You can, however, talk him occasionally into a discount, or get your Ch stuff via the secondhand market at a price reduction. The key is to remember CH is a minefield, so tread lightly until you are sure it is a safe step to but the product you are thinking of acquiring. Ray does the hobby a dis-service in his attempts of re-naming products in order to purposefully confuse gamers into buying something they already own, and he does so without hesitation far too many times. But CH has some good stuff, old and new. AS BW says " Caveat Emptor".

KRL, Jon H
 

Gunner Scott

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Hi-

All I can really say is buy what you like, but do not expect most people in this forum to really agree with your decision in purchasing CH stuff. Some stuff I like, some is pretty bad. I guess buying a CH product is a lot like playing Russian roulette, you never know if its a hit or a miss. (probably a miss 95% of the time). Anyway, the bottom line is buyer beware.

Scott
 

Robin Reeve

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I bought CH's ATS sys for all the North African Campaign some years ago - I had no issues with it personally, I recently (and enthusiastically) bought GW/ASL modules 1,2,& 3, as well as Hindenburg line (the last named yet to be shipped)... again no issues.
ATS is their "thing".
I have had issues with their ATS to ASL adaptations, which had either useless or erroneous SSR, and the terrain depictions of both systems don't always match.
What is your experience with ASL?
Some of the errors and approximations are blatant for any experienced player.
Having no issues is hardly possible.
 
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