Why do we want to win?

bendizoid

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Well your attitude is certainly awesome!???
Amongst the wisest of words ~”No matter what life throws at you, you get to choose your own attitude. Nobody can take that away from you unless you let them.”
 
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Actionjick

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I almost called Fish a few days before he passed but my phone was on low battery and I knew a call to Fish would be at least an hour.
Lmao! Sorry you didn't get to talk to him but your point is well taken. Much like his baths phone calls with Fish were lengthy and leisurely. He only had a shower at his house, we only had a tub. Baths here were his treat for himself.
 
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skarper

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It's all a question of balance. No desire or effort to win a game spoils it. Too much aggression about winning ruins it.

When I started playing ASL and SL I was a sore loser. I was young and had some baggage from childhood I needed to drop.

Now I'm old and while I still do my best to win, I accept it when things don't go my way.

I think ASL is not suitable for highly competitive play. Over a series a games the better player will win more, but with so many dice rolls things can easily go wrong and lead to an upset.

If the gap between players is wide, then the better player will win nearly all the time. I don't think that would work as a competitive challenge though, and I imagine such games would be very much about teaching the game.
 

Actionjick

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It's all a question of balance. No desire or effort to win a game spoils it. Too much aggression about winning ruins it.

When I started playing ASL and SL I was a sore loser. I was young and had some baggage from childhood I needed to drop.

Now I'm old and while I still do my best to win, I accept it when things don't go my way.

I think ASL is not suitable for highly competitive play. Over a series a games the better player will win more, but with so many dice rolls things can easily go wrong and lead to an upset.

If the gap between players is wide, then the better player will win nearly all the time. I don't think that would work as a competitive challenge though, and I imagine such games would be very much about teaching the game.
I agree with your second point but will have to ponder the first. Interesting.
 

Actionjick

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I think ASL is not suitable for highly competitive play. Over a series a games the better player will win more, but with so many dice rolls things can easily go wrong and lead to an upset.

If the gap between players is wide, then the better player will win nearly all the time. I don't think that would work as a competitive challenge though, and I imagine such games would be very much about teaching the game.
Actually I think ASL is very suitable for highly competitive play. Dice happen but the great players can usually compensate for bad dice rolls. It's an intrinsic and unavoidable part of the system they have mastered. As has been mentioned many times ASL is not chess. Chess is pretty much balanced while an ASL scenario is not (boring if it was IMHO ). I've loved and competed at both and found ASL the better of the two for me perhaps because of the inherent imbalance of the opposing sides.

Upsets happen and while it may suck if it happens to you it's part of what gaming is all about.
 

trailrunner

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I am a very non-competitive person. When I did my first mountain bike race, we started line abreast in a field. After about 100 yards, we merged into a narrow trail in the woods. It was crowded at the merge as riders were jockeying for position. At first, I was letting others go ahead of me, until I realized that I was in a race -- dammit! -- and I needed to be a bit more aggressive; otherwise I'd be DFL.

When I play ASL, I do my best to win, but at the end of the game, I don't really care. I much rather have a competitive game, and build a good story of how it played out. And more important than winning is that a game allowed me to spend a few hours with a good friend.
 

Actionjick

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I am a very non-competitive person. When I did my first mountain bike race, we started line abreast in a field. After about 100 yards, we merged into a narrow trail in the woods. It was crowded at the merge as riders were jockeying for position. At first, I was letting others go ahead of me, until I realized that I was in a race -- dammit! -- and I needed to be a bit more aggressive; otherwise I'd be DFL.

When I play ASL, I do my best to win, but at the end of the game, I don't really care. I much rather have a competitive game, and build a good story of how it played out. And more important than winning is that a game allowed me to spend a few hours with a good friend.
It's great to see players that have a mature attitude towards the game! Well done.
 

Tuomo

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I much rather have a competitive game, and build a good story of how it played out.
It's all about the stories. The halfsquad "volunteers" leading the way, looking for trouble but sometimes electing the better part of valor and Searching instead. The Best Leaders and Kill Stacks trying to get into position without attracting attention. The 8-0's and 8-1's who aren't high in the command structure but somehow always seem to be the ones we entrust with our best moves. The flankers off to the side, hoping to impact the game beyond all proportion to their numbers.

The HIP units, just waiting for their moment of glory. The leaders just itching to lay their firelanes across the advance. The picket squads and die-in-place units, willing to sell their lives dearly just to throw off the attack as well as they can.

The MTRs that forgot Special Ammo back at the base. The pig-of-an-MG that breaks on its first shot. The 9-2 who of course fails his first NMC. The Snipers coming out of nowhere to pick off the leaders. The Light Mortars who go on ROF tears, hoping that eventually they'll have some effect. The OBA red cards. The Mines and Wire where you did not expect them, making you wonder what else is out there.

The tanks rumbling into position, slowly and confidently or going off on wild probes to the flanks and rear. The 1945 Conscripts who can't fight but were given enough Panzerfausts to be truly dangerous. The Panthers with impregnable front armor and the Shermans looking to dart in and nail them from the side.

The guys who Pin at just the wrong moment, and the guys who survive beyond all reasonable expectation. The Ambushes and Heroic Modifiers. Flames spreading to Blazes. Smoke everywhere. Everything's a mess and These Jokers Over There Can't Rally To Save Their Lives.

Time is running out, there's not much left but hope and halfsquads, but you've got a wounded 8-1 and just barely enough to get the job done, if you play it right and get just a little bit lucky.

Oh yes. It's the stories.
 

trailrunner

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Stories...

Once during a game, two squads were in melee in a road next to a building occupied by a squad. My opponent and I joked that there was a street brawl, and the squad in the building was just sitting there, drinking wine, and watching the fight through windows that had long ago been blown out. Then one of the squads was eliminated, and the victors of the melee suddenly found themselves adjacent to an enemy squad. We imagined that they were just getting up, patting themselves on the back for winning the brawl, only to look up and notice the enemy right next to them. Surprise!
 

Yuri0352

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The MTRs that forgot Special Ammo back at the base. The pig-of-an-MG that breaks on its first shot. The 9-2 who of course fails his first NMC. The Snipers coming out of nowhere to pick off the leaders. The Light Mortars who go on ROF tears, hoping that eventually they'll have some effect. The OBA red cards. The Mines and Wire where you did not expect them, making you wonder what else is out there.
I could cut and paste this paragraph in to virtually every AAR of the ASL scenarios which I have played.
 

jcferrell

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It's all about the stories. The halfsquad "volunteers" leading the way, looking for trouble but sometimes electing the better part of valor and Searching instead. The Best Leaders and Kill Stacks trying to get into position without attracting attention. The 8-0's and 8-1's who aren't high in the command structure but somehow always seem to be the ones we entrust with our best moves. The flankers off to the side, hoping to impact the game beyond all proportion to their numbers.

The HIP units, just waiting for their moment of glory. The leaders just itching to lay their firelanes across the advance. The picket squads and die-in-place units, willing to sell their lives dearly just to throw off the attack as well as they can.

The MTRs that forgot Special Ammo back at the base. The pig-of-an-MG that breaks on its first shot. The 9-2 who of course fails his first NMC. The Snipers coming out of nowhere to pick off the leaders. The Light Mortars who go on ROF tears, hoping that eventually they'll have some effect. The OBA red cards. The Mines and Wire where you did not expect them, making you wonder what else is out there.

The tanks rumbling into position, slowly and confidently or going off on wild probes to the flanks and rear. The 1945 Conscripts who can't fight but were given enough Panzerfausts to be truly dangerous. The Panthers with impregnable front armor and the Shermans looking to dart in and nail them from the side.

The guys who Pin at just the wrong moment, and the guys who survive beyond all reasonable expectation. The Ambushes and Heroic Modifiers. Flames spreading to Blazes. Smoke everywhere. Everything's a mess and These Jokers Over There Can't Rally To Save Their Lives.

Time is running out, there's not much left but hope and halfsquads, but you've got a wounded 8-1 and just barely enough to get the job done, if you play it right and get just a little bit lucky.

Oh yes. It's the stories.
I recently played "Silence That Gun" as the Germans. The gun was "silenced" when it malfunctioned on its first shot and was never repaired. Oddly, I still won.
 

Juan SantaX

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I don't remember anyone getting unruly at Copenhagen this year. There was one other issue, but that wasn't anything testosterone driven. -- jim
It was me, Jim. But that was an issue with the meaning of “and/or“ in the victory conditions.... And I only made my complaint after conceding the game. I lost. Full stop. Later I made my complaint (And I think I was right, and in this forum some rules gurus gave me the reason). Anyway, it was a tournament, and my opponent of that game can tell you that I allowed him to make again his deployment because he missread the entry of my forces. I try always to play with full sportmanship... And my opponents in VASLeague can tell you so: I usually let them choose the scenario and let them roll the dice at his home, so the say which side I will play (only once I was present at that roll, against Sandro). I dont want to win at all cost, I want to enjoy a fair game. (This is not a player making a rant, but to make clear that at Copenhagen I was dissapointed, but played as the TDs said, even I thought it was a clear mistake of translation of the VC)
(EDIT: PD; I have I funny video of an opponent rolling the dice to get sides on League... 1,2,3, I was german, 4,5,6 He was russian... I am sure both, he and I, had a very nice evening playing that scenario, and I would play with him as many times he wants, I enjoyed a lot his game!)
(EDIT 2. Ihope this sh** of Covid ends to go back to Copenhaguen tournamwnt again, Its a GREAT tournament!)
 
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