Why do we want to win?

JoeArthur

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Same question can be asked of all games - why do we want to win?

I came across this article:


I mean - testoterone levels can increase by 30% prior to a competition?

Anyone else got any ideas / links ?
 
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Vinnie

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That makes quite a lot of sense.
I have had to, over the years, damp down my competative urge.
One of the reasons I gave up competetive fencing was losing one bout had me angry for a week. I was never even any good at the sport!
I have tried to learn to play for the joy of the game and one of the ways I have learnt to do so id to play as a team game since that way you are less focused upon yourself and more on the game.
Don't get me wrong, I will still do my utmost to defeat you, I just try not to get too upset when it all goes pear shaped!
 

JoeArthur

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Don't get me wrong, I will still do my utmost to defeat you, I just try not to get too upset when it all goes pear shaped!
Martin,

I wanted some dice cups and that led to Backgammon equipment suppliers. What amused me was they advertised some of their dice cups as "non-crushable" :) We've all been there.....................
 

gorkowskij

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In contrast, I find the old cliche, "It's not if you win or lose, but how you play the game that matters," holds true in ASL. I like to win, but I play to experience the richness of ASL. That's only possible with a "peer" opponent who can test me by exercising all the game's potential, at my expense. I enjoy the depth and breadth of the event, even if I lose. If my primary motivation was winning, I would seek out opponents who knew less about that rules, to better my chances; but the reverse is true.
 

Honosbinda

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In contrast, I find the old cliche, "It's not if you win or lose, but how you play the game that matters," holds true in ASL. I like to win, but I play to experience the richness of ASL. That's only possible with a "peer" opponent who can test me by exercising all the game's potential, at my expense. I enjoy the depth and breadth of the event, even if I lose. If my primary motivation was winning, I would seek out opponents who knew less about that rules, to better my chances; but the reverse is true.
That's why we have tournaments and a rating system, so people really know who is good at the game. Because people can't poach players at a disadvantage to boost their ratings very much. Although I've heard there are some who try by cherry-picking easy tournaments, it would take a lot of work to make sure you can avoid the better players at all the tournaments!

Currently, advancing the AREA rating is only possible at tournaments. It's very clear, in nearly all cases, the higher the rating one has, the better that player is.

Exploring the richness of ASL includes playing to win as a primary motivation, within the bounds of the rules (i.e. without cheating).

If that motivation is being avoided, something of the entire rich experience of ASL is lacking.

Whenever I hear that quote, someone is trying to comfort someone who had just been humiliated in a competition. It's like saying 'hey, you did your best, even though you got creamed, you played honestly, etc, blah blah blah.'

Reaching a goal is NOT less important than giving our best effort. I really don't like quotes that champion averageness and deflate excellence.

How about these instead:

Vince Lombardi
“Winning isn’t everything, it’s the only thing.”

Knute Rockne
“Show me a gracious loser and I’ll show you a failure.”

Billie Jean King
“A champion is afraid of losing. Everyone else is afraid of winning.”

Kobe Bryant
“Winning takes precedence over all. There’s no gray area. No almosts.”

Bill Parcells
“No matter how much you’ve won, no matter how many games, no matter how many championships, no matter how many Super Bowls, you’re not winning now, so you stink.”

Tiger Woods
“Winning solves everything.”

Mia Hamm
“The person that said winning isn’t everything, never won anything.”
 

Tuomo

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Winning's great. But if you feel like you're a failure when you don't win, you're doing something wrong. IMO. It just seems mentally unhealthy, to me. We talk about "being driven" as a good thing, and I think it is, but nobody wins all the time, or even enough of the time (for them), and if one can't handle that, then yeah, I think one is failing in a bigger sense. Because outside of life-and-death situations, I can't think of much of anything where winning is absolutely non-negotiable.

This from someone who used to be too damn competitive and full of himself and is hopefully becoming more balanced and pleasant to be around.
 

gorkowskij

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That's why we have tournaments and a rating system, so people really know who is good at the game. Because people can't poach players at a disadvantage to boost their ratings very much. Although I've heard there are some who try by cherry-picking easy tournaments, it would take a lot of work to make sure you can avoid the better players at all the tournaments!

Currently, advancing the AREA rating is only possible at tournaments. It's very clear, in nearly all cases, the higher the rating one has, the better that player is.

Exploring the richness of ASL includes playing to win as a primary motivation, within the bounds of the rules (i.e. without cheating).

If that motivation is being avoided, something of the entire rich experience of ASL is lacking.

Whenever I hear that quote, someone is trying to comfort someone who had just been humiliated in a competition. It's like saying 'hey, you did your best, even though you got creamed, you played honestly, etc, blah blah blah.'

Reaching a goal is NOT less important than giving our best effort. I really don't like quotes that champion averageness and deflate excellence.

How about these instead:

Vince Lombardi
“Winning isn’t everything, it’s the only thing.”

Knute Rockne
“Show me a gracious loser and I’ll show you a failure.”

Billie Jean King
“A champion is afraid of losing. Everyone else is afraid of winning.”

Kobe Bryant
“Winning takes precedence over all. There’s no gray area. No almosts.”

Bill Parcells
“No matter how much you’ve won, no matter how many games, no matter how many championships, no matter how many Super Bowls, you’re not winning now, so you stink.”

Tiger Woods
“Winning solves everything.”

Mia Hamm
“The person that said winning isn’t everything, never won anything.”
You forgot one.

Tom Landry: “I’ve learned that something constructive comes from every defeat." He lost a few football games. Was he “a failure” per your Knute Rockne quote? By the way, I graduated from Notre Dame and attended numerous football games there, and some on the road. Our team lost many. We never labeled them “a failure.”
 

Jazz

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Winning when it happens due to abysmal dice on your opponent's part? Like kissing your sister.
Winning when it happens because of bad/uninformed play by your opponent? Like kissing an ugly sister.
Losing when both sides played a good game? That is what it is all about.
 

Honosbinda

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You forgot one.

Tom Landry: “I’ve learned that something constructive comes from every defeat." He lost a few football games. Was he “a failure” per your Knute Rockne quote? By the way, I graduated from Notre Dame and attended numerous football games there, and some on the road. Our team lost many. We never labeled them “a failure.”
I forgot a lot of them. I picked those ones specifically for obvious reasons. My point wasn't about labeling failures, it was about the mindset of champions. cheers
 

Actionjick

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Winning when it happens due to abysmal dice on your opponent's part? Like kissing your sister.
Winning when it happens because of bad/uninformed play by your opponent? Like kissing an ugly sister.
Losing when both sides played a good game? That is what it is all about.
As an only child had no opportunity to kiss a sister, ugly or otherwise. Do cousins count?
 

Actionjick

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That's why we have tournaments and a rating system, so people really know who is good at the game. Because people can't poach players at a disadvantage to boost their ratings very much. Although I've heard there are some who try by cherry-picking easy tournaments, it would take a lot of work to make sure you can avoid the better players at all the tournaments!

Currently, advancing the AREA rating is only possible at tournaments. It's very clear, in nearly all cases, the higher the rating one has, the better that player is.

Exploring the richness of ASL includes playing to win as a primary motivation, within the bounds of the rules (i.e. without cheating).

If that motivation is being avoided, something of the entire rich experience of ASL is lacking.

Whenever I hear that quote, someone is trying to comfort someone who had just been humiliated in a competition. It's like saying 'hey, you did your best, even though you got creamed, you played honestly, etc, blah blah blah.'

Reaching a goal is NOT less important than giving our best effort. I really don't like quotes that champion averageness and deflate excellence.

How about these instead:

Vince Lombardi
“Winning isn’t everything, it’s the only thing.”

Knute Rockne
“Show me a gracious loser and I’ll show you a failure.”

Billie Jean King
“A champion is afraid of losing. Everyone else is afraid of winning.”

Kobe Bryant
“Winning takes precedence over all. There’s no gray area. No almosts.”

Bill Parcells
“No matter how much you’ve won, no matter how many games, no matter how many championships, no matter how many Super Bowls, you’re not winning now, so you stink.”

Tiger Woods
“Winning solves everything.”

Mia Hamm
“The person that said winning isn’t everything, never won anything.”
Babe Ruth
Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game.
 

Sparafucil3

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I mean - testoterone levels can increase by 30% prior to a competition? Might explain what happened at the Copenhagen tourny this year.............
I don't remember anyone getting unruly at Copenhagen this year. There was one other issue, but that wasn't anything testosterone driven. -- jim
 

Old Noob

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I've lost more than I have won, but I enjoyed playing every single scenario that I did.
 

Actionjick

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I found Tooz's post #39 in the Monster Scenario thread to excellently express my attitude towards gaming and winning. Always played to win but was more concerned with other aspects of the game.
 

bendizoid

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I’ve won enough not to really care anymore, although there are a few people I hate losing to, lol. I know I’m awesome and have nothing to prove except practice sportsmanship. If we play I hope to help bring out the best from both of us. Relax, and have a fun challenge.
 

Actionjick

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I’ve won enough not to really care anymore, although there are a few people I hate losing to, lol. I know I’m awesome and have nothing to prove except practice sportsmanship. If we play I hope to help bring out the best from both of us. Relax, and have a fun challenge.
Well your attitude is certainly awesome!???
 
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