Which rule do you want to change?

wrongway149

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There's your problem...an ASL scenario is not a "battle". It is the hot 30-60 minute (real time) fire-fight that would have the handful of squads involved (on both sides) repositioning for any number of short term tactical reasons. Foxhole rules do not fit this idea.
Correct. So don't use them.
 

Swiftandsure

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Foxholes in woods is one of the best places to set up in.
They can be exited with the protection of woods DRM - but they still get DFFed in their Location.
They mitigate airbursts vs. onboard mortars (+1 final DRM) and vs. OBA (+3 final DRM).
 

ianp622

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I'm fine with 99.5% of ASL rules but the one that I hate hate hate is dense jungle being inherent terrain. Completely messes up sightlines that you'd usually use, and makes the maps very geometric rather than being natural looking like you'd expect a jungle to be. I'm too afraid to house rule it because I'm sure it would mess up balance big time, and I'm sure it's meant so that regular maps can be used more frequently, but still a major pain.

If I were to change the rule to preserve some of the original design decision (and enhance realism), I would say it's an inherent LOS hindrance (+1 or +2), but a LOS obstacle wherever there is a woods depiction.
 

MajorDomo

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North Vietnamese mortar men were so accurate that they could often put one in a foxhole on the second or third attempt after ranging.

I doubt the German vets of WWII would not also be as proficient.
 

Tater

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I am quite sure that Pete meant that they are broken relative to you and to your presuppositions.
Uuuh, OK...as I stated, for the concept of ASL being the "hot moment" (a universally accepted standard), foxholes are broken...Pete agrees...so, what is you point?

Keeping in mind the original question and purpose of the thread...and the themes of the various discussion...this was never about winning an argument...there is no prize here because, based on history, MMP is not going to change ANY of these rules.

In the end, I will have a bazillion foxhole counters that never get used and MMP will keep including 40-50 more foxholes in every new (re)release. 🙄
 

Justiciar

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North Vietnamese mortar men were so accurate that they could often put one in a foxhole on the second or third attempt after ranging.

I doubt the German vets of WWII would not also be as proficient.
Just to add to your point...

Capt. "ike" Fenton (who fought in WW2) said of the North Koreans, when he went to war again, "they could really drop them [meaning mortar rounds] in your lap."

I think proficient mortar teams are found in all armies...
 

Swiftandsure

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Uuuh, OK...as I stated, for the concept of ASL being the "hot moment" (a universally accepted standard), foxholes are broken...Pete agrees...so, what is you point?
If you think that Pete agrees that foxholes are broken rather than he agrees that they don't fit your personal idea about their use, you certainly must be right. 😆
I am now sure that you will also boast that I lost the argument.
You are very funny: please go on!
 

Tater

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If you think that Pete agrees that foxholes are broken rather than he agrees that they don't fit your personal idea about their use, you certainly must be right. 😆
I am now sure that you will also boast that I lost the argument.
You are very funny: please go on!
No argument to lose or win...the rules aren't changing...not enough scenarios that include enough foxholes to make it worthwhile.

What I have pointed out about foxholes is universally known...it's NOT a "personal idea", it is a known fact, I wasn't even the first person to bring it up in this thread. There are around a dozen or so suggestions (by as many players) to change foxholes before I ever commented. Some of those players being well know (EX: Gor-Gor) and experienced. Players avoid setting up in foxholes like the plague...almost any other terrain is preferable because of the foxholes lack of flexibility and the (unavoidable) increase to enemy fire opportunities.

You and Pete can keep your heads buried up your...uhm…in the sand if you want, but the general consensus appears to be that foxholes are broken relative to ASL rules. Now, in "real life" maybe foxholes worked perfectly...but ASL isn't real life...so we can either face the fact that the foxhole rules are broken relative to ASL game mechanics ("design for affect") or, we just keep on not using foxholes.
 
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