Which nationality has the most authentic " flavor "

Craig Benn

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Ironically, I think the tactics in PTO (and thus the scenarios) are very similar to Red Barricades.
I Disagree. Red Barricades is all about securing LVL2 vantage points so Machine-gun deathstacks can dominate large areas - or kindling/rubbling those locations or using counterkillstacks/OBA to neutralise them.

You tend to get more deaths from double-breaks from firing than CC in my experience. There are some similarities of course - I just wouldn't say 'very similar'. I much prefer PTO to Red Barricades because that kill stack dominance is rarer - although you do occasionally see it with USMC.
 

Honza

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I Disagree. Red Barricades is all about securing LVL2 vantage points so Machine-gun deathstacks can dominate large areas - or kindling/rubbling those locations or using counterkillstacks/OBA to neutralise them.
Fiddlesticks. Death Stars are totally overrated in RB. They are not that common either. I've played numerous CGs on the RB map and the Death Stars never contribute that much to the game. They also act like magnets to enemy fire and soon get eliminated. IMO of course.
 

wrongway149

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I Disagree. Red Barricades is all about securing LVL2 vantage points so Machine-gun deathstacks can dominate large areas - or kindling/rubbling those locations or using counterkillstacks/OBA to neutralise them.

You tend to get more deaths from double-breaks from firing than CC in my experience. There are some similarities of course - I just wouldn't say 'very similar'. I much prefer PTO to Red Barricades because that kill stack dominance is rarer - although you do occasionally see it with USMC.

OOO OOO OOoo -- actual ASL game- relevant discussion! :geek::unsure:
 

Carln0130

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Fiddlesticks. Death Stars are totally overrated in RB. They are not that common either. I've played numerous CGs on the RB map and the Death Stars never contribute that much to the game. They also act like magnets to enemy fire and soon get eliminated. IMO of course.
So have I, against live opponents. Without a doubt that broadens your perspective as they try all sorts of things you may not have considered. I stopped counting at a dozen tries and lost interest several CG's after that. They dominate. Have a 10-3 led table 24 go on a streak of ROF, everybody trying to defend in an area can go away. I agree with Craig Benn that OBA has to be used to neutralize them. However, both MG's and negative leaders come in copious quantities in RB, for the Germans anyway. Spread them out and the OBA can't be everywhere. You can normally, with the exception of Rockets and Pre-Registered Hexes see the OBA coming too. It picks a target, the target goes to the bottom floor and waits while another kill stack does it's job. They aren't invincible, but they are a very big deal in that CG.
 

Craig Benn

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Fiddlesticks. Death Stars are totally overrated in RB. They are not that common either. I've played numerous CGs on the RB map and the Death Stars never contribute that much to the game. They also act like magnets to enemy fire and soon get eliminated. IMO of course.
Numerous solo CG's Jan? It does mean you can't get the full benefit of HIP'ing the killstacks. Do you play optimally to win or to create interesting narratives when you play solo?

What you're saying is the exact opposite of my experience- not just in Red Barricades but also VOTG and Red October. Although I will say this effect is less marked at the beginning of CGs - you tend to see squads dying but SW accumulating and after 4/5 days anything in the shop window gets melted...

What are other people's thoughts?
 

Carln0130

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Numerous solo CG's Jan? It does mean you can't get the full benefit of HIP'ing the killstacks. Do you play optimally to win or to create interesting narratives when you play solo?

What you're saying is the exact opposite of my experience- not just in Red Barricades but also VOTG and Red October. Although I will say this effect is less marked at the beginning of CGs - you tend to see squads dying but SW accumulating and after 4/5 days anything in the shop window gets melted...

What are other people's thoughts?
See above post for my half cent Craig.
 

Actionjick

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Fiddlesticks. Death Stars are totally overrated in RB. They are not that common either. I've played numerous CGs on the RB map and the Death Stars never contribute that much to the game. They also act like magnets to enemy fire and soon get eliminated. IMO of course.
We certainly had kill stacks in the RB CGs but I don't recall them dominating the mapsheet. That was a while back and many refreshments ago so the memories are a bit hazy.
 

Honza

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Spotted fire, SMOKE, OBA, SAN, counter kill stacks, AFV MA, heavy ordnance and staying out of LOS can all be used as counter measures against kill stacks.
 

Tom Morin

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How to mitigate kill stacks - OBA, Smoke, high SAN, BTC Level A, Concealment, smother with light mortar fire, and of course, HIP kill stacks that wait for the enemy kill stacks to open up, then.....WHAM! Drop trousers and bada-bap-bap-bap-bap-bap-bap.......nothing like dueling death stacks. High pucker factor for sure.

And note I said mitigate, 'cause a kill stack is likely to harvest a few pounds of flesh in most cases before it goes down in flames.
 

Vic Provost

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How to mitigate kill stacks - OBA, Smoke, high SAN, BTC Level A, Concealment, smother with light mortar fire, and of course, HIP kill stacks that wait for the enemy kill stacks to open up, then.....WHAM! Drop trousers and bada-bap-bap-bap-bap-bap-bap.......nothing like dueling death stacks. High pucker factor for sure.

And note I said mitigate, 'cause a kill stack is likely to harvest a few pounds of flesh in most cases before it goes down in flames.
I will never forget what Kiri Naiman and his Russian 30FP Kill Stack (3 x HMG + 3 x MMG) with a 10-2 leading them did in a RB Campaign 30 years ago, we watched an infantry company all but disappear when they were done. ASL nastiness to the max.
 

Tom Morin

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In the same CG, I had a 10-3 led stack of 6x 1-2-7s, MMG x3, HMG x3, in the huge assembly hall. Vic's Russians facing me was a kill stack of a 10-2, 10-0, 3x squads and 3x HMG (IIRC this was in 1990!). Unfortunately the 10-0 went Berserk and took them all on a death ride against my 10-3's stack......all Phasers FIRE! BZZZZZT! Complete annihilation. Vic had the last laugh, as they won the CG 3 dates later with a decisive crushing of the Germans.....mostly well placed OBA. My main group (including 10-3) got hit with pre-Reg 150 OBA, rubbled the shit out of the building and my troops perished. Al Loiselle's Pioniergruppe in the Assembly hall got hit dead on by 200 Rocket, also suffering annihilation. We raised the white flag. It was EPIC fun!
 

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Kind of reminds me of a VotG game where a Russian 10-2 took his death star troops on a berserk charge into a boulevard hex against a German death star and an adjacent stack of Assault Engineers with LMGs, each stack with a -2 Ldr at least. IIRC the initial FP calculation was something like a 50 down 5 before taking into account minuses for FP modifiers. It didn't end well for the Russians BTW.
 

Tom Morin

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In the same CG, I had a 10-3 led stack of 6x 1-2-7s, MMG x3, HMG x3, in the huge assembly hall. Vic's Russians facing me was a kill stack of a 10-2, 10-0, 3x squads and 3x HMG (IIRC this was in 1990!). Unfortunately the 10-0 went Berserk and took them all on a death ride against my 10-3's stack......all Phasers FIRE! BZZZZZT! Complete annihilation. Vic had the last laugh, as they won the CG 3 dates later with a decisive crushing of the Germans.....mostly well placed OBA. My main group (including 10-3) got hit with pre-Reg 150 OBA, rubbled the shit out of the building and my troops perished. Al Loiselle's Pioniergruppe in the Assembly hall got hit dead on by 200 Rocket, also suffering annihilation. We raised the white flag. It was EPIC fun!
And this was all on Day 3 of the big CG. They counter attacked at night the next day and chewed us up, forcing another idle date to buy enough troops. What's more, on Day 2, I had a death stack that hit the Russians between the Assembly hall and the river, everything in sight got ripped up, Vic lost a 9-2 and 2x 9-0s (some to my Sniper!). This was on Turn 5, and the door was open to thrust with my platoon of halftracks all the way to the Commissar's House.....BUT.....the Russians rolled a game ending '1', dashing all hopes of a decisive win. You could hear Vic and Kiri scream down the street when they rolled it. We were quite despondent, knowing a real slog in the factories lay ahead.........yet it was still EPIC fun!!

In all my years of ASL, the most fun has been playing on the RB map, scenario or CG. The first, the best, none have come close.
 

wrongway149

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You tend to get more deaths from double-breaks from firing than CC in my experience. There are some similarities of course - I just wouldn't say 'very similar'. I much prefer PTO to Red Barricades because that kill stack dominance is rarer - although you do occasionally see it with USMC.


A 768 with a Flamethrower is a mobile Kill Stack.
 

Vic Provost

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In the same CG, I had a 10-3 led stack of 6x 1-2-7s, MMG x3, HMG x3, in the huge assembly hall. Vic's Russians facing me was a kill stack of a 10-2, 10-0, 3x squads and 3x HMG (IIRC this was in 1990!). Unfortunately the 10-0 went Berserk and took them all on a death ride against my 10-3's stack......all Phasers FIRE! BZZZZZT! Complete annihilation. Vic had the last laugh, as they won the CG 3 dates later with a decisive crushing of the Germans.....mostly well placed OBA. My main group (including 10-3) got hit with pre-Reg 150 OBA, rubbled the shit out of the building and my troops perished. Al Loiselle's Pioniergruppe in the Assembly hall got hit dead on by 200 Rocket, also suffering annihilation. We raised the white flag. It was EPIC fun!
Yes Tom, that was crazy stuff going on there and why the entertainment value of RB was often off the charts! They should have shot the
10-0 as soon as he lost it, it was insane dropping their MGs to charge the Russians, kill the freaking commissar first!!! We laughed until we were almost rolling on the floor though not amusing from the German point of view.

Roll low people, roll low when 2 x 10 morale leaders are charging after you!
 
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