When a Human Wave unit is no longer a HW unit?

turlusiflu

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A Human Wave unit has 8 MF to spend in his movement. A25.235 says that "A unit remains a HW Unit (even if no longer adjacent to another HW Unit) until it is: eliminated; broken; out of MF at the end of an Impulse;..."

So when is it considered that the impulse is ended? When the movement of all units in the HW is over, after considering any defensive fire against them; or at very moment that the unit has no more MF to spend?

For example, a unit spends his last MF in his MPh moving to a hex. If an enemy First Fires at this hex, does the moving unit benefit from still being a HW unit, or is he no longer a HW unit because he has no more MF to spend?

I assume that if the enemy fires in the DFPh, the former HW unit is no longer a HW unit, and does not have the +1 in Morale.
 

klasmalmstrom

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I am fairly certain that the intent is that any Defensive First Fire vs units making their last Impulse in the MPh treat those units as still part of the HW for Defensive First Fire purposes.
 

jrv

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No longer being a "Human Wave Unit" is just used to determine how long the Human Wave itself persists. It does not determine how long the units retain the +1 Morale. If all the units spend eight MF, they are all no longer Human Wave Units (and the Human Wave ends). But they retain their +1 ML. Per A25.23 "for the remainder of that Player Turn they have their Morale Level increased by one [EXC: if broken] and are Lax." Units can drop out of the Human Wave for a variety of reasons without spending all eight MF, e.g. broken, entering a hex with an enemy unit, running out of MF (wounded SMC will often drop out because of this before the Human Wave itself ends), eliminated, becoming a guard, etc, and if they don't end up no longer being a Human Wave Unit for one of those reasons, they will no longer be a Human Wave Unit after spending eight MF. Only if they break do they lose their plus one ML bump even after no longer being Human Wave Units. A unit is a Human Wave Unit only while participating in an on-going Human Wave.

I assume that if the enemy fires in the DFPh, the former HW unit is no longer a HW unit, and does not have the +1 in Morale.
Only if broken.

JR
 
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What does this mean?

  1. Per A25.23 "for the remainder of that Player Turn
  2. A unit is a Human Wave Unit only while participating in an on-going Human Wave.
It is either a HW unit until the CC phase is done OR at the end of its MPh ( of 8)

This is simplifying it to get to the "meat" of the argument..
 

STAVKA

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Each unbroken HW/Banzai unit is immune to PAATC/PTC/HOB during its MPh.

Each unbroken HW/Banzai unit have an increased ML +1 and is LAX both during its MPh and until the end of the Player Turn.
 

Perry

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Here is the eratta that you can download and attach to the rules in ch A.
I don’t think it is helpful to call this “Human Wave errata.”

It is more accurate to call it “One man’s view on how the Human Wave rules should read.”
 

Swiftandsure

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STAVKA

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I don’t think it is helpful to call this “Human Wave errata.”

It is more accurate to call it “One man’s view on how the Human Wave rules should read.”
I do not think it is helpful that you tell us how to play the rules, but if you can offer a better solution than us, please provide your own view on the matter.
 

Magpie

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Isn't a HW unit that breaks no longer a HW unit?
If so I don't see how they can rejoin the charge.

Not even sure there is even a mechanism for how they can break and then have to take another MC while the HW is still happening?
 

jrv

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Isn't a HW unit that breaks no longer a HW unit?
If so I don't see how they can rejoin the charge.

Not even sure there is even a mechanism for how they can break and then have to take another MC while the HW is still happening?
They could be fired on by multiple defenders on the same expenditure. I agree that the rules don't let them re-join once they break even if they subsequently rally. My guess would be that they split from the human wave and can move normally using their normal MF allotment minus the MF spent, but that would have to be submitted for a q&a from Perry to be sure.

JR
 

Eagle4ty

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(Thoughts only) I would think that Impulse movement and the units involved would be considered somewhat like an extended stack; once a unit(s) no longer become part of that "stack" its/their MPh has ended regardless of any subsequent actions during "the" MPh. I agree with the above that once a unit(s) has become broken it is no longer part of the Human Wave as I would think only unbroken units can be considered for inclusion into a Human Wave (at least strongly implied by the rules).
 

Magpie

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Does a unit that breaks immediately end its movement?
It's never come up in any game I have played but is there the prospect that a unit that breaks after expending 1MF , gets shot again (by a different unit) and battle hardens/rallies , it can then continue to move ?
 

STAVKA

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Does a unit that breaks immediately end its movement?
It's never come up in any game I have played but is there the prospect that a unit that breaks after expending 1MF , gets shot again (by a different unit) and battle hardens/rallies , it can then continue to move ?
No, a unit that breaks end its MPh first when the Defender stop firing at the Broken units MF expenditure.

A broken unit that are First Fired upon, may continue to move if it Battle Hardens/create a hero and must continue to move if it become Berserk.
 

Magpie

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I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean
 

STAVKA

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I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean
Ok, try to simplify my answers.

Does a unit that breaks immediately end its movement? No.

It's never come up in any game I have played but is there the prospect that a unit that breaks after expending 1MF , gets shot again (by a different unit) and battle hardens/rallies , it can then continue to move ? Yes.
 

STAVKA

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I don’t think it is helpful to call this “Human Wave errata.”

It is more accurate to call it “One man’s view on how the Human Wave rules should read.”
We are waiting for your view, how you would play it when a moving broken HW unit becomes Berserk?
Battle Hardens?
creates a Hero?
 
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