What's With the 'Counter' in CX?

[brian s]

The term 'Counter Exhausted' has always bugged me just a little bit. What was the rationale for including the word 'counter' in that description? Wouldn't 'exhausted' have done okay by itself?

We don't have 'Counter Pinned' or 'Counter Burning' or 'Counter Immobilized' or anything else with the word 'counter' in it. Was this seemingly unnecessary adjective needed in this case because the actual counter really does get tired when I push it an exta hex or two or make it climb the hill into the woods in the advance phase?

I trust the forum members to straighten me out on this one and provide some peace of mind.

 

[alanp]

After thinking long and hard on this one, I have an answer.

"CX" looked better than "EXH" [there was an initial playtesting with an 'Exhaust' counter for when the Italian vehilces came out] and "DT"--for Double-Time--was out on two points: 1)you may become 'cx' after an Adv of 4MFs and 2) it also stands for 'the shakes'.

 

[DerBlitzer]

It is a little strange. But if you called it "Squad Exhausted," you'd end up with an SX counter, and for those get wood merely at the sight of their first tank entering the board, you'd incite more wanton behavior---residual all over the place.

Of course, it's not really Exhausted, either. Because they can still move pretty well, and their morale doesn't dip.

Just one of the intriguing vagaries of this game....:laugh:

 

[Honza]

It is a little strange. But if you called it "Squad Exhausted," you'd end up with an SX counter, and for those get wood merely at the sight of their first tank entering the board, you'd incite more wanton behavior---residual all over the place.

HaHaHaHaHa...!

 

[Glennbo]

I trust the forum members to straighten me out on this one and provide some peace of mind.

you are a counter, and you are exhausted.

COPE! :blab:

 

[Kevin Kenneally]

you are a counter, and you are exhausted.

COPE! :blab:

Why would Brian S be a "counter"? Exhausted, maybe, but a counter......?


Hmmmmmmmmmmmm................:clown:

 

[countermanCX]

The ctrmanCX has one of those CX markers permanently glued to his forehead. It's a result of cycling through a group of, say, seventy-eleven VASL imagefiles in Photoshop, then discovering that he'd left the underbar out of all the SW MG range-factors. Sigh.

Do not pass GO, do not collect $200.

 

[Houlie]

To be comletely technical, perhaps to signify that the counter that is exhausted could, in fact, be a dummy? To say it is "squad exhausted" would be somewhat deceiving when it is really "dummy exhausted".

Cheers!

 

[Pitman]

I doubt it was ever really thought out.

 

[bendizoid]

The CX counter is redundant! I can't get passed it either so I never use them. They should just say "X". I mean is the "counter exhausted" or is the "counters counter exhausted"?

Does not compute, warning Will Robinson, Danger!
Bob

BTW The picture doesn't look very exhausted either, he is spryly jumping over the -1 with his rifle and his battle gear, and doing a fine job. Maybe he should have some sweat pouring off and a little flush in the face.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

The CX counter is redundant! I can't get passed it either so I never use them.

Clearly they are flawed and broken and not used as intended. :clown:

 

[Bob Miller]

Horsies after galloping get exhausted, they are not a squad so the generic "counter exhausted" applies very well to that situation

 

[brian s]

Thanks for all of your replies. You guys have given me a lot to think about as I try to come to grips with this aspect of ASL.

I'm comforted in the knowledge that at least one other player is bothered by this CX thing, but I am disturbed by the fact that this player is bendizoid. If this means that I have some similar thought patterns to Bob, then there is hope for me to actually get good at this game someday, but at what cost? Regardless, Bob B raised some very good questions regarding the artwork that should be addressed by someone.

The explanation that using the word 'squad' could be misleading if it were a dummy stack is decent, but I still think they could have just used 'exhausted' all by itself. Any possible confusion with 'exhaust' produced by Italian vehicles could have been resolved by suitable artwork depicting clouds of brown and black smoke on those counters.

I had considered the Cavalry (horsie) argument before my initial post, but it is good that Bob M brought it up. Again, simply using 'exhausted' would have covered this. Failing that, they could have easily gone with 'mammal exhausted'. This would have covered not only humans and horses but pack animals as well.

Carrying the 'mammal exhausted (MX)' thought further, this even would have covered any as-yet-to-be-developed scenarios that will employ seaborne assault rules for Navy Underwater Demolition Teams utlizing trained dolphins to blow up underwater obstacles. Before any of you throw this argument at me, any designers that wished to utilize The Incredible Mr. Limpet in their scenarios could easily cover the fact that he was not a mammal by SSR, so don't even go there.

Alas, I have to admit that Pitman has probably provided the most succint and correct answer so far.

Brian

 

[Dave Olie]

I realize Brian is just having fun

with this thread, but there is an actual reason for the term "Counter Exhausted".

Squad Leader included concealment counters marked "CE" on the flipside. These were used to mark AFV that were Crew Exposed. Other concealment counters had "TI" and "DM" on the flip.

In CoI the whole concept of Double Time movement was introduced (Rule section 73) as an option. (Technically, every rule in CoI was optional.) CoI also included new "CE" counters for Crew Exposure. Rather than include another bunch of counters for use with the new DT movement rule, somebody (probably Don Greenwood) came up with the idea of using the now-redundant CE counters from SL, and came up with "Counter Exhausted" as a new term that made sense with the old abbreviation that originally signified something else.

Incidentally, this is the reason why, in ASL, "CX" appears on the flipside of concealment counters.

Through CoI and CoD there were, therefore, two different sorts of "CE" status. This wasn't a big problem as one applied only to AFV and the other only to Infantry. However, in GI:AoV special counters appeared for use with DT movement, and the abbreviation was changed to "CX" for "Counter Exhausted".

So the short answer is that the term originated in order to re-use an old counter type that had become redundant instead of printing more counters. It's almost hard to believe that at one time someone thought this game system could actually have too many counters. :laugh:

 

[brian s]

True, I was just having fun, but I actually was curious as to why the term 'Counter Exhaustion' was used. It always seemed a bit out of place. Many kudos and thanks to Dave for the explanation. I grew up with the SL/CoI/CoD/GI system and your description of the evolution of the CE/CX counters has caused some synaptic pathways to fire that have been long dormant. It almost makes me want to open up my old SL box, but I'm afraid that the contents will crumble to dust if I expose them to air.

I can rest again. Thank you.

Brian

 

[Dave Olie]

I grew up with the SL/CoI/CoD/GI system and your description of the evolution of the CE/CX counters has caused some synaptic pathways to fire that have been long dormant.

I can remember reading the CoI rules for the first time with my buddy Chris. We came to the new Double Time rule (which we both agreed was much needed) and saying to each other "'Counter Exhausted'? Man, that's really reaching." So I guess it something that's always stuck with me in the back of my mind.

Plus, in a lot of the big honking scenarios of those days you could run out of those CE counters really quickly. I seem to remember making extras of my own design.

 

[Blackcloud6]

Should be UP, for "Unit Pooped." :laugh:

But Yoopers might take offense to that.

 

[bendizoid]

Should be UP, for "Unit Pooped." :laugh:

But Yoopers might take offense to that.

Did someone say "pooh" ?

CX sucks! CX sucks!
Bob

 

[serpico]

I actually like the term Counter Exhausted.....kinda self explanitory.

No good Doubletimer!