What's up with the violence at football matches in Europe?

Martin Mayers

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We see scarcely any english player in European events. There must be a reason.
Generally I'd say we don't tend to measure ourselves by the standard at which we play a pretty inconsequential board game.

Almost all the people I know who attend ASL tournaments attend for fun. I can think of about three or four exceptions on the entire UK scene.

If you accept that most UK players attend tournaments for the 'craic' then what can you sell us about European tournaments that would have us reaching for our wallets to traipse across Europe for?

I could attend European tournaments as I have a motorhome and therefore free and ready accommodation...frankly I am too busy travelling around the UK on my spare time to go playing wargames in France, Holland, Germany, wherever. I may attend Grenadier one year as I like Germany and holiday there each year. But I can't see myself attending any other tournaments. Not because of my level of play...I'd give pretty much anyone a game on my day....but for the reasons already mentioned.

Honestly...I think you over-estimate the importance of ASL in peoples lives.
 

Martin Mayers

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It's true that we can only speculate about events. Russians have also their share of responsibility because they specially came from Russia for a fight with the" english champions."

In the article below, one of them said "we came to challenge the English "little girls".
http://www.francetvsport.fr/euro/les-glacantes-confessions-d-un-hooligan-russe-venu-a-marseille-defier-les-fillettes-anglaises-339873
They're 20 years too late for a fight with the English Champions.
 

Martin Mayers

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Interesting that, despite the French imprisoning some English fans, and arresting absolutely ZERO Russian fans there has been a suspended ban enforced on Russia and no such sanction against England.

If I were being really argumentative (as if) I'd say the French police are looking for softer targets to arrest (ie. the noisy, annoying, irritable, "haughty" English) and refusing to deal with the hard nuts (ie. the gum shield wearing, trained, knife wielding, Russians and French Ultras).

Who would ever have imagined such a scenario?
 

Martin Mayers

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I'd ban Italy and Belgium - since after Sweden's dismal performance yesterday, that is probably our best chance of getting past the group stage. :D
The only chance of us winning is if everyone was banned apart from us. And we'd still, somehow, someway, manage to cock up a penalty shoot out and go out in the semi finals I reckon.
 

Vinnie

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I quite fancy Italy this year. They have an excellent defence, an area most other teams are lacking
Mind you, we couldn't even make the finals. We're not even as good as Iceland.
 

Martin Mayers

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I quite fancy Italy this year. They have an excellent defence, an area most other teams are lacking
Mind you, we couldn't even make the finals. We're not even as good as Iceland.
It's actually quite a shame. It would have been a tournament to behold had all the home nations and Ireland been there.

And all our hard men could have formed a UK regiment and duffed those Russians up. Then duffed each other up for afters.

PS: Germany. Or a complete shock. Someone like Wales who, quietly and unfussily, have a pretty damn good team.
 

MajorDomo

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Don't get the futbol fan mentality.

I live in Chicago, we have two professional baseball teams, they play each other. Fans sit together and cheer for their team, only remember once when it got out of hand.

Earlier this year, I attended a Chelsea/West Bromwich fixture at Chelsea, took a bus to Chelsea early to lift a pre-match pint.

Area bars only allowed Chelsea fans to enter, since I had stupidly worn my red shirt (dark red, but still red); I was not allowed in despite making the case that I was just a silly American on holiday.

The fans at the game were segregated by section, with much animosity on display. It looked to me like the visiting Albion supporters were let out first to their buses to avoid trouble, but YMMV.

Quite a different atmosphere, but anyway what do you guys think about Brexit?

Rich
 

Mister T

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Don't get the futbol fan mentality.

I live in Chicago, we have two professional baseball teams, they play each other. Fans sit together and cheer for their team, only remember once when it got out of hand.

Earlier this year, I attended a Chelsea/West Bromwich fixture at Chelsea, took a bus to Chelsea early to lift a pre-match pint.

Area bars only allowed Chelsea fans to enter, since I had stupidly worn my red shirt (dark red, but still red); I was not allowed in despite making the case that I was just a silly American on holiday.

The fans at the game were segregated by section, with much animosity on display. It looked to me like the visiting Albion supporters were let out first to their buses to avoid trouble, but YMMV.

Rich
As a rule in France, visiting supporters enter by a different gate for better police management, are segregated in the stadium, and have to wait a bit after the match so that they can't meet the crowd. These preventive measures work well as there are very few incidents, with possibly the exception of matches between Paris and Marseille. However it has a cost as hundreds of mobile security forces are deployed. This state of controlled peace exist also in Spain, Italy. Things are quieter in Germany.
In England, major clubs rose steeply the price of tickets, de facto expelling the working class from stadiums. Now residual violence is localised in second or third UK league matches. There was no risk for you in Chelsea as it is an affluent area of London, but had you been in Millwall wearing a visiting jersey, you might have been in trouble.
 

Martin Mayers

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As a rule in France, visiting supporters enter by a different gate for better police management, are segregated in the stadium, and have to wait a bit after the match so that they can't meet the crowd. These preventive measures work well as there are very few incidents, with possibly the exception of matches between Paris and Marseille. However it has a cost as hundreds of mobile security forces are deployed. This state of controlled peace exist also in Spain, Italy. Things are quieter in Germany.
In England, major clubs rose steeply the price of tickets, de facto expelling the working class from stadiums. Now residual violence is localised in second or third UK league matches. There was no risk for you in Chelsea as it is an affluent area of London, but had you been in Millwall wearing a visiting jersey, you might have been in trouble.
There is no more hooliganism in the second or third tiers as there is in the top tier. In fact of the top 10 teams with football related arrests in England 7/10 were for Premiership teams. Some of the slant will be down to attendances though there are some very well attended grounds in the second top tier for sure. The numbers of arrests are very low though...no more than 100 in 2015 for any single club. As a percentage I bet almost every club has a percentage of fan arrests within a similar bracket. Quite simply put, every single club in England, and I bet Europe, has its minute percentage of knob heads.

Chelsea is absolutely a hotbed for football related trouble. A number of fans received banning orders a few months back for racially incited aggravation on an underground tunnel. Chelsea are 6th in the table above. Millwall are 18th (arrest figures for 2015- season).

I've been to Millwall as it happens three times over the past 10-12 years and seen no trouble whatsover. I parked my car in the local streets and walked to and from the game with my scarf on. Trouble at Millwall is NOTHING to do with endemic hooliganism, it's almost all to do with local and historical rivalries.

I have no stats for European grounds but I'd be surprised if France, Germany, the rest of Europe shows any significant lower statistics then in England. Club football is a very safe pastime these days. Almost all arrests are for drunken behaviour rather than hooliganism or violence.

Most violence right now is in Eastern European clubs. And most of the problems over in France right now are caused by Russian thugs, appalling French policing (the French Genderarmerie are absolutely clueless on how to police football fans and have been for many years), and poor English behaviour. And, the ready availability of alcohol. Like a very effective bomb, if you mix all the ingredients correctly it will go off.
 
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Mister T

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To reassure you, dozens of Russians have been expelled and three sentenced to jail today.

As to Millwall fans, their slogan reads: "no one like us". At least they are honest about themselves. :D
And if you type Millwall, Google automatically supplies "hooligans".
 

Martin Mayers

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To reassure you, dozens of Russians have been expelled and three sentenced to jail today.

As to Millwall fans, their slogan reads: "no one like us". At least they are honest about themselves. :D
And if you type Millwall, Google automatically supplies "hooligans".
I'd have rather seen the French police tackle the Russians brandishing knives and slashing random passers by on Tuesday.....but far easier to fire tear gas into crowds of England fans and claim to be policing them. At least they have finally realised that there are some Russian thugs there though. To your credit you appear to have realised that far earlier than the Gendarmes did with your "Russian fans coming to take on the champions" statement earlier in the week.

Millwall's is a rather ironic slogan and stretches back probably 20 years to when they had a real problem with hooliganism and attracted a lot of negative press attention. Their fans got fed up with it. Claimed no one liked them (and no one did) and it stuck. Although they're probably despised by West Ham, Cardiff, and Leeds fans (and perhaps London teams generally) through very historic and quite nasty rivalries...most other fans don't much care about them either way anymore I'd say. They're just another team.

Me and my fellow Stockport County fans sing "we're the greatest football team the world have ever seen". We don't REALLY believe we're the greatest football team the world have ever seen you know.

Irony and self-deprecation is a very large part of being a football fan. You're not really a football fan I'm guessing?

I put Millwall into Google and it came up with a first page of links with nothing remotely related to hooligans. It had Millwall hooligans as one of the 'searches related to Millwall' but I'm not sure what point that proves other than lots of people believe the hype that Millwall fans are all thugs.

For your information....

Most arrests 2015
Dirty Leeds (who play in the Championship...2nd tier) - 99
Manchester United - 85
Wolves (Championship) - 73
Villa - 72
Mackems - 72
Chelsea - 65
Toon - 57
Leicester - 56
Arse - 54
Smoggies - 49
Birmingham - 45
Derby - 43
Tykes - 42
Shitty - 41
Fulham - 39
Spurs - 36
WBA - 35
MILLWALL - 35
Stoke - 34
Forest - 33

35 arrests at Millwall in 2015. It's not exactly Tombstone
 
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