What's up with the violence at football matches in Europe?

Martin Mayers

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English youth + excessive consumption of beer + football = stupidity
Hang on....misfire. We've had our problems in the past and we've paid the price (and, reading your post, we're still paying the price of course).

Those were Russians firing flares into our crowd. Russians charging at our fans who were trying to escape. Russians putting random English fans in the hospital by stamping on their heads when they were beaten to the ground. And a gang of over 100 Russians in Balaclavas running around with knives and slashing out indiscriminately.

Our hoolies these days are largely nursing beer bellies and maturity, or on life travel bans during major tournaments. Very rare that there's any major trouble involving English fans in recent tournaments.

My friend whose a journalist currently over there (and who has reported on English and Scottish hooliganism over the years) reckons the Russians now are pretty much where we were 20 years back...but worse. They come tooled up with knives and machetes. His view for what little it's worth...

"I think there is mindset difference (and pretty much always has been) between the Brits and those from the Eastern Euro countries and the odd country like Italy and that is most Brits like the ale, the sun, singing daft songs, a bit of arm flapping and if push comes to shove will have a dust up that mainly means haymakers and a boot in the ribs ... as opposed to serious intent on permanent damage, knives and life threatening injuries ... there has been some exceptions but in general I mean.
We are just not that blood thirsty but like an arse about more often than not ... some of those last night are just from another planet."

Course...it's still pretty **** behaviour. But most people will appreciate a difference between a bunch of like minded guys meeting on a playing field for a dust up, and a group of fans randomly attacking anyone in opposition colours.

It's a shame. Wouldn't catch me anywhere near a foreign football match. But I've been to the vast majority of grounds in England following my team...very rarely seen any trouble. Even at notoriously 'feisty' places such as Millwall and West Ham.
 

Dave68124

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Hang on....misfire. We've had our problems in the past and we've paid the price (and, reading your post, we're still paying the price of course).

Those were Russians firing flares into our crowd. Russians charging at our fans who were trying to escape. Russians putting random English fans in the hospital by stamping on their heads when they were beaten to the ground. And a gang of over 100 Russians in Balaclavas running around with knives and slashing out indiscriminately.

Our hoolies these days are largely nursing beer bellies and maturity, or on life travel bans during major tournaments. Very rare that there's any major trouble involving English fans in recent tournaments.

My friend whose a journalist currently over there (and who has reported on English and Scottish hooliganism over the years) reckons the Russians now are pretty much where we were 20 years back...but worse. They come tooled up with knives and machetes. His view for what little it's worth...

"I think there is mindset difference (and pretty much always has been) between the Brits and those from the Eastern Euro countries and the odd country like Italy and that is most Brits like the ale, the sun, singing daft songs, a bit of arm flapping and if push comes to shove will have a dust up that mainly means haymakers and a boot in the ribs ... as opposed to serious intent on permanent damage, knives and life threatening injuries ... there has been some exceptions but in general I mean.
We are just not that blood thirsty but like an arse about more often than not ... some of those last night are just from another planet."

Course...it's still pretty **** behaviour. But most people will appreciate a difference between a bunch of like minded guys meeting on a playing field for a dust up, and a group of fans randomly attacking anyone in opposition colours.

It's a shame. Wouldn't catch me anywhere near a foreign football match. But I've been to the vast majority of grounds in England following my team...very rarely seen any trouble. Even at notoriously 'feisty' places such as Millwall and West Ham.
Just to be fair, you can swap out "english" and "football" from the above equation and still get the same answer.
 

Martin Mayers

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Just to be fair, you can swap out "english" and "football" from the above equation and still get the same answer.
It's not really fair though is it? Because some countries have very limited form in relation to football. If they can behave themselves watching a game of football why can't English, Russian, German, Dutch, Polish etc. dickheads do the same?

Can't say I've ever really understood it.

No different at club level here...some clubs have a shameful history. Some are extremely well behaved. Can't just tarnish everyone.
 

Dave68124

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It's not really fair though is it? Because some countries have very limited form in relation to football. If they can behave themselves watching a game of football why can't English, Russian, German, Dutch, Polish etc. dickheads do the same?

Can't say I've ever really understood it.

No different at club level here...some clubs have a shameful history. Some are extremely well behaved. Can't just tarnish everyone.
I think my point was you take young people, regardless of nationality, load them up with excessive amounts of alcohol, you are bound to get stupidity in whatever form it manifests itself.
 

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I have cut my alcohol consumption by 90% and feel great about it. The fact is too many people lose their judgement when alcohol fills their brains. After I cut my drinking way down I started seeing alcoholism all around me (and me to). I remember watching the Dean Martin Roasts and Dinno and Foster Brooks would act drunk. It seemed funny back then but the truth is most of the time drunkeness sucks and we all know it. It is not funny like Otis or some other stereotype drunk, it's pathetic.
Besides the alcoholism, I wonder if these violent hooligans are looking for something to replace their lost nationalism. I would call them jingoistic sports fans.
 

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English hooligans have set the standard for violence in football matches. So it is not surprising that other like-minded groups in eastern europe are thrilled to "meet" their role model. As eastern europeans are fitter than overweight english counterparts, they got the upper hand.

How ironic to hear the English now complaining about the lack of fair rules of engagement.
 

Martin Mayers

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English hooligans have set the standard for violence in football matches. So it is not surprising that other like-minded groups in eastern europe are thrilled to "meet" their role model. As eastern europeans are fitter than overweight english counterparts, they got the upper hand.

How ironic to hear the English now complaining about the lack of fair rules of engagement.
Whose complaining ?

Part of the problem is that, unlike your average French man, English people don't like to back down and walk away from a fight with a white flag. Which, ironically, has helped preserve your right to mock us.
 
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Mister T

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Whose complaining ?

Part of the problem is that, unlike your average French man, English people don't like to back down and walk away from a fight with a white flag. Which, ironically, has helped preserve your right to mock English people.
Inherent to english fan violence is the xenophobic nature of the english working class (or not so working but it's another issue), something you demonstrate time and again in your haughty posts.
 

Martin Mayers

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Inherent to english fan violence is the xenophobic nature of the english working class (or not so working but it's another issue), something you demonstrate time and again in your haughty posts.
You're not too backward at coming forward with the occasional bout of haughtiness Georges. But somehow I think your French arrogance will have blinded you to it.

You were far more polite in person when I met you in Blackpool.

Although you weren't polite when you asked Dave Ramsey to change his dice because you didn't like the results he was getting.
 

Martin Mayers

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Rightly so.

No mention of French fans who have also been at the centre of a lot of trouble.

Funny that isn't it?

I'd ban both England, Russia, and France from the tournament already (France mainly because it would fulfil all my francophobian fetishes for the next decade I admit :laugh:) And I'd move the World Cup from Russia to somewhere where they can behave themselves like Sweden or Ireland.

Problem is, not unlike the gun debate in the USA, you're punishing a very large community of law abiding people as a result of the actions of a tiny minority. Eventually however that large majority needs to police itself.
 
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bendizoid

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I wonder why they can't arrest them for say 3-7 years hard slave labor after seizing all their assets?
 

Mister T

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You're not too backward at coming forward with the occasional bout of haughtiness Georges. But somehow I think your French arrogance will have blinded you to it.
You were carrying that all these years in the back of your mind so i'm am happy that you eventually released it. Only the opinion of real players like Dave Ramsey matter to me.
 

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Rightly so.

No mention of French fans who have also been at the centre of a lot of trouble.

Funny that isn't it?

I'd ban both England, Russia, and France from the tournament already (France mainly because it would fulfil all my francophobian fetishes for the next decade I admit :laugh:) And I'd move the World Cup from Russia to somewhere where they can behave themselves like Sweden or Ireland.

Problem is, not unlike the gun debate in the USA, you're punishing a very large community of law abiding people as a result of the actions of a tiny minority. Eventually however that large majority needs to police itself.
Fortunately with messages like this you are not building up your credibility. Two english fans were subject to fast track trial and jailed today.

I don't think however that either of the warring parties will be disqualified. Too much money at stake.
 

Martin Mayers

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You were carrying that all these years in the back of your mind so i'm am happy that you eventually released it. Only the opinion of real players like Dave Ramsey matter to me.
Luckily for your fragile mentality you don't know what Dave thinks about your antics then I'd say.
 

Martin Mayers

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Fortunately with messages like this you are not building up your credibility. Two english fans were subject to fast track trial and jailed today.

I don't think however that either of the warring parties will be disqualified. Too much money at stake.
Probably because you disagree with me. But your biased. Just like me. And you don't know what's been going on because you're not there. I have friends who are there. We're both getting second hand information but I'd wager mine is more valuable than yours.

You deny that Marseille Ultras to name but one group are involved in all this?

And you believe that the English fans are the sole perpetrators rather than French and Russian fans as well?

And you talk about credibility? I suggest you remove your blindfold.
 

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Probably because you disagree with me. But your biased. Just like me. And you don't know what's been going on because you're not there. I have friends who are there. We're both getting second hand information but I'd wager mine is more valuable than yours.

You deny that Marseille Ultras to name but one group are involved in all this?

And you believe that the English fans are the sole perpetrators rather than French and Russian fans as well?

And you talk about credibility? I suggest you remove your blindfold.
It's true that we can only speculate about events. Russians have also their share of responsibility because they specially came from Russia for a fight with the" english champions."

In the article below, one of them said "we came to challenge the English "little girls".
http://www.francetvsport.fr/euro/les-glacantes-confessions-d-un-hooligan-russe-venu-a-marseille-defier-les-fillettes-anglaises-339873
 
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