What the next new games should be

[Oberst Balck]

Hi,

If someone from MMP is reading these Forum's please listen.....

The next two modules should be from the Eastern Front> The first was proposed about 2 years agoi yet nothing has become of it. The expansion pack to Red Barricades, namely the southern extension. I have been waiting and want to spend money on it immediatly..

Second is the SS. I don't give a toss that they did nasty things ( on the battlefield) so did the Russians. I think a Karkov game would be ideal. In any event it is incredably important to represent these forces who influenced the war without doubt...

PLEASE give us a game worthy of the fighting men ( on both sides)..If you want any help with theatres I am sure there are many who could provide.....


Thank you

 

[syfaulk]

The Major wrote:

Second is the SS. I don't give a toss ......

Disagree here, gotta say that if it's one thing I've got enough of counter/module/scenario wise, it's the SS. Tons of scenarios, KGP I and II, ABTF, not to mention the ton of third party scenario packs and HASLs that deal with 'em.

JMO,
Scott "First in line for Manila" Faulk

 

[Pitman]

Yeah, ASL needs another module with the SS like it needs a hole in the head. Good grief.

Look at what there already is:

A Bridge Too Far
Kampfgruppe Peiper I
Kampfgruppe Peiper II
Fuhrer's Firemen
No Quarter No Glory
Neither Fear Nor Hope
God Save the King
George Kelln's FOUR Leibstandarte Packs
Arnhem: Third Bridge
Scotland the Brave
Dispatches from the Bunker's Leibstandarte series

That's just what I can think of right off the top of my head.

If there was never again another SS product there'd still be more than enough to go around.

 

[syfaulk]

Plus, the other STB, Berlin Red Vengeance, Stalinie Prostori, Hell's Bridgehead and King of the Hill have SS in it, so yes, the SS are about as overexposed as J-Lo's hindquarters.

As for more Stalingrad, go ahead and check out the MMP Insider . It has some info on the upcoming Valor of the Guards HASL. Also, while it's not in the Insider, I'm pretty sure that I've heard of a project that will link both maps. I believe it's called Red October, or something to that effect. Any others have any more info?

-Scott

 

[da priest]

I'm pretty sure that I've heard of a project that will link both maps. I believe it's called Red October, or something to that effect. Any others have any more info?

-Scott

think this is Kibler's new one and will link with RB

 

[Oberst Balck]

Is that so ???

Hi,

Yes taht does seem a lot of SS. What I am after though is a campaign on the Eastern Front. One that lasts at least a week preferably 2 or 3.

If anyone thinks there is anything fitting, matching Red Barricades in "continuity" and reinforcements,(it doesn't have to be as big) please let me know.

Yes the southern extension to Stalingrad would be awsome, hopefully it could be played by itself as it is doubtfull VASSAL will be able to run the two side by side it due to the RAM.

Ta ta

 

[da priest]

Re: Is that so ???

Hi,

Yes taht does seem a lot of SS.

Way too many-- no more please! Unfortunately the Canadian Cabal is working on another one--can you say 12SS AGAIN!

If anyone thinks there is anything fitting, matching Red Barricades in "continuity" and reinforcements,(it doesn't have to be as big) please let me know.

Please NO MORE east front after the current batch!

Let's have early war --with tiny tanks.

 

[Bryan Holtby]

The reason the Canadian ppl are working on a 12SS module is likely because the 12SS and the Canadian army spent a good part of the first month in France beating the crap outa each other.

The 12SS executed over 100 Canadian POW's within the first 2 weeks of D-Day, and the Canadian soldiers rarely took an SS soldier captive after the executed Canucks were found.

 

[kdalton]

Hmmm. Let me see.

East Front:

Valor of the Guards, Tom Morin's monster, is almost ready for submission to us. Charlie Kibler, Mr. Red Barricades himself, has completed and turned in Red October, but it's still in internal development and nowhere near ready. This one will link to Red Barricades. On the table, the total RB and RO map is like 96" long or something; perfect for team play, IMO.

West Front:

Ortona: Little Stalingrad will be submitted soon. Canadians vs. German Paratroopers in a tough city fight in Italy.

PTO:
Manilla looks kewl. Big city fight with heavily armed Japanese against US infantry and cavalry.


Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I think the upcoming Budapest HASL submission is going to contain some late war SS. I don't have a timeline on that right now.

 

[Jazz]

The Major wrote:

Second is the SS. I don't give a toss ......

Disagree here, gotta say that if it's one thing I've got enough of counter/module/scenario wise, it's the SS. Tons of scenarios, KGP I and II, ABTF, not to mention the ton of third party scenario packs and HASLs that deal with 'em.

JMO,
Scott "First in line for Manila" Faulk

The SS and ASL ... what a quandry.

There is a boatload of SS products and scenarios. Probably enough of them.

I've heard enough stories from my parents and their friends that the way they dealt with non-combatants on the East front was an abomination. We don't need to glorify them.

On the other hand, they did get thrown into the types of situations that make for good ASL scenarios. There is the allure of a fanatic, elite (in training and equipment) unit being pushed to the limit.

I have mixed emotions playing them. It seems that each SS product that has come out recently (mainly the Canadian scenario packs) do treat actions that could stand a cohesive ASL treament, e.g. early '43 Kharkov. Budapest is another topic with SS content that deserves a cohesive treatment.

On the other hand, Manila could stand the same treatment.

As I said, a quandry.

 

[Virtual_General]

SS

The SS and ASL ... what a quandry.

There is a boatload of SS products and scenarios. Probably enough of them.

I've heard enough stories from my parents and their friends that the way they dealt with non-combatants on the East front was an abomination. We don't need to glorify them.

On the other hand, they did get thrown into the types of situations that make for good ASL scenarios. There is the allure of a fanatic, elite (in training and equipment) unit being pushed to the limit.

I have mixed emotions playing them. It seems that each SS product that has come out recently (mainly the Canadian scenario packs) do treat actions that could stand a cohesive ASL treament, e.g. early '43 Kharkov. Budapest is another topic with SS content that deserves a cohesive treatment.

On the other hand, Manila could stand the same treatment.

It wasn't just non-combatants, treatment of Russian solidiers was generally very bad also. And it wasn't just the Eastern Front, SS units had a habit of committing atrocities wherever they might be--ask the 650+ French villagers burned alive in the church at Oradour-Sur-Glaine by the 2nd SS. And speaking of the Eastern Front, it wasn't just the SS. War crimes were a pretty regular practice among virtually all forces on both sides. At least the Russians had the excuse that they were defending their own country from invasion by a murderous enemy.

But why do we care from an ASL standpoint? Creating scenarios and playing one side or another doesn't constitute glorification, or acceptance of the behavior of the units involved. If you are going to worry about playing the SS, you might as well worry about playing the Japanese too. The IJA's extremely brutal treatment of POWs is well-documented. As is their hideous record of repeated atrocities against civilian populations throughout their areas of conquest.

I would hope that anyone playing ASL has enough historical knowledge to have a firm understanding of who the good guys and the bad guys were in WWII. Cheering for your SS units or IJA troops in a board game's tactical situation isn't going to alter that -- at least I would certainly hope not.

David

 

[da priest]

I would hope that anyone playing ASL has enough historical knowledge to have a firm understanding of who the good guys and the bad guys were in WWII.

David you're on the wrong board--this isn't the evil SS board, it's the "damn I'm tired of the elite unit scenario" board--let's get some perspective here and throw in the tiny tanks and weak infantry--

and with all the new scenarios for the evil dudes vs. the eviler dudes the East Front is more than represented--

let's do frogs vs Ities, Ities vs albanians or greeks or ethiopians, red spanish vs blue spanish, Thais vs anybody, brits vs frogs, a plethora of others awaits us!

 

[GazMarsh]

Yeah, what Ron said - I don't have all those FT-17 counters just so they can lie in the box you know...

 

[Virtual_General]

elite units, etc.

David you're on the wrong board--this isn't the evil SS board, it's the "damn I'm tired of the elite unit scenario" board--let's get some perspective here and throw in the tiny tanks and weak infantry--

and with all the new scenarios for the evil dudes vs. the eviler dudes the East Front is more than represented--

let's do frogs vs Ities, Ities vs albanians or greeks or ethiopians, red spanish vs blue spanish, Thais vs anybody, brits vs frogs, a plethora of others awaits us!

Ron,

I was just commenting on what the other guy was saying about his feelings on playing the SS, rather than on the main thread of there being too many SS scenarios. I agree with you that it would be useful to have more variety. I like early war stuff also, and tiny tanks are fun.

David

 

[Brian W]

Re: elite units, etc.

I like early war stuff also, and tiny tanks are fun.

What is a good definition of "early war"? Is a BT-7/T-26 or a PzIIIG/H a "tiny tank"?

I would like to see more early Barbarossa tank fights (without the T-34/KV's).

 

[da priest]

What is a good definition of "early war"?

Hmmm, depends on theater---like ETO until late '40?

Is a BT-7/T-26 or a PzIIIG/H a "tiny tank"?

Can they be harmed by a MG? Then yes, if not then no.

 

[Oberst Balck]

MMP - thanks

Hi,

Well good to hear on the Red October game. I have been waiting for that since 1999..

I don't think talking about SS atrocities has anything to do with this post it is indeed best not reflected on..

What I was and still am after is a BIG ( read : with reinforcemets) SS battle. I am especially interested in any " special conditions" and the type of equipment. I thnik some mandatory night attacks should be the go as well..

Having a non - board strategic element would be good. This could be as simple as a random event thing or best of all something based on historic fact that can be influenced within the game, ie: maybe cetrain objectived by certain times mean such and such a reinforcement would be more available.

The other idea is to have a real time strategy where units are available and within a map ( large scale not ASL size) you have to " transport" reinforcements. Weather conditions in the game itself could effect the speed the became available.

As you cann tell , I really hate small games and I hate silly small tanks too .

Eric

 

[Jazz]

Re: MMP - thanks

Hi,

Well good to hear on the Red October game. I have been waiting for that since 1999..

I don't think talking about SS atrocities has anything to do with this post it is indeed best not reflected on..

What I was and still am after is a BIG ( read : with reinforcemets) SS battle. I am especially interested in any " special conditions" and the type of equipment. I thnik some mandatory night attacks should be the go as well..

Having a non - board strategic element would be good. This could be as simple as a random event thing or best of all something based on historic fact that can be influenced within the game, ie: maybe cetrain objectived by certain times mean such and such a reinforcement would be more available.

The other idea is to have a real time strategy where units are available and within a map ( large scale not ASL size) you have to " transport" reinforcements. Weather conditions in the game itself could effect the speed the became available.

As you cann tell , I really hate small games and I hate silly small tanks too .

Eric

Kurt Martin put together a desert thing like this (operational games on a large scale map with ASL to resolve engagements). Only a few folks actually saw it, and I seem to remember that is was flawed, just can't recall details it was that long ago.

I think that a good topic for an operation treatment with ASL resolution of engagements would be Kharkov early '43. It may become to cumbersome with way too may ASL scenarios than one could ever play in a reasonable amount of time.

Has anybody every raised the possiblity of a LongStop hill (Tunisia, '43) HASL? It's not quite as early war as many have asked for, but it isn't late war either. Mainly an infantry fight over moderately rough terrain with tanks in a supporting role. It was fought over a at least twice over a period of months. Each fight took multiple days. A lot of night action and attack/counter attack on both sides.

 

[syfaulk]

Major,
Have you tried ABTF? 'Cuz you are, for the most part, describing it.
-Scott

 

[da priest]

As you cann tell , I really hate small games and I hate silly small tanks too

Well, this is Squad Leader--not Tank Leader. And definately not Division Leader.

Small(even most CGs are "small") unit tactics and leave the f---ing Monster Tanks out for the Monster Truck kinda guys, you know the guys with big muscles but tiny c---s.

If ya can't play with a bunch'a wimpy squads and just a few tiny tanks, ya can't play ASL.