What new WWII venues for ASL?

Petros

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To expand upon the thread about 'What new Scenarios?', the question should be expanded to ask ‘What new WWII ASL battles are yet to be done and how should we do them?'
Our battles can be treated in a variety of ways: HASL, mini-campaign, regular scenarios.
HASLs and HSASL lend themselves best to set-piece battles using a historical map as the centerpiece. We lack a few well known battles here, especially Ponyri at Kursk but also Kohima and Cassino (HOB did this before - but it needs a new map ;) ). others? We are reaching a limit here IMO due to the time, expense, lack of good subject matter and lack of interest.
Mini-campaigns -a Pete Shellings invention – great idea. Might even justify making new 'historical geoboards' or large overlays designed to fit alongside or on other geoboards - but with a specific historical location. Permits us to cover larger areas (not set-piece),leverage the current boards, counters, rules, etc..
Regular scenarios: just keep using our current mix of components and geoboards.
I think one subject here is the matter of getting new components - we either want more counters or maps or something tangible to expand our battles and to add to our already bursting collections. We just want (don't need) more IMO. :hog: Nothing wrong there - it's only cardboard.
Don
 

paulkenny

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Mokra Poland 9/1/39 for a shelling type mini campaign.

Light Panzers, Polish Tin cans, cavalry types, recon elements, ARMORED TRAIN!!! Stukas, etc. etc.
 

paulkenny

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FWIW I dont think we have reached a limit WRT to HASL at all. I think we need to rethink the "programmed approach" of a ABTF and make the CG more free wheeling relative to historicity ala RB. That opens the door for a great deal of HASL coverage, Manilla 45, Balkans partisans vs Gerries, France 40, desert, etc where there is a variety of units, vehicles, guns etc that can be used.
 

The Purist

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"HASLs and HSASL lend themselves best to set-piece battles using a historical map as the centerpiece. We lack a few well known battles here,"

Well,...I may have a slight nationalistic bias but I believe "Ortona: Little Stalingrad" is about ready. Mix of urban combat within a rural setting with nifty new terrain (I've playtested this one). Its in line somewhere behind VotG, I believe. The MMP lads would have more info.

"Mini-campaigns -a Pete Shellings invention – great idea. Might even justify making new 'historical geoboards' or large overlays designed to fit alongside or on other geoboards - but with a specific historical location. Permits us to cover larger areas (not set-piece),leverage the current boards, counters, rules, etc.."

Agree that new minis are a great idea but don't think we need the special maps. With 52 maps and umpteen over-lays you should be able to represent just about any battlefield. This may be a way to get more people into the desert or jungles (especially the desert :horse: ).

"Regular scenarios: just keep using our current mix of components and geoboards."

Never anything wrong with new scenarios. I'm a trifle bored with Panthers, Tigers and IS-2s. I would love to see anew 'Action Pack' for the blitzkrieg era, desert/Tunisia or SE Asia. If more maps are requested by players here is where some 'specials' could be provided (i.e. bocage)
 
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purdyrc

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A France, Poland, or Balkans/Greece Blitzkreig Action Pack would be cool. I would also like to see something for Sicily and/or Italy.

I also think we don't need to have purely "historical" battles. Throughout the war, there were tons and tons of skirmishes in every theatre. I think a great mini campaign would be something along the lines of an American infantry battalion slugs it out against a German infantry battalion (in the desert, in Sicily, in Italy, in Normandy, etc., etc.). Just pick the appropriate boards, maybe make a few specific overlays, grab some counters and start playing.

Don't get me wrong, I like the historical scenarios just fine. I just don't think we should be limited to them. If you want to see what an opposed beach assault would be like, it doesn't have to be done with the exact units that took part in the battle fought over a painstakingly accurate map of the beach in question. Just get a board with some terrain you like, throw on the ocean and beach overlays, grab some counters and go for it. I would like to see more products like that!

- Rick
 

paulkenny

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Hwy Purist, not sure what your feelings are on TPP but I will be publishing a Blitzkrieg pack this winter that will hopefully fill that niche.
 

paulkenny

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BTW one of the vapor wares that MMP announced a while back was an Action Pack/HSASL set in Sicily.

I too am bored with the Panther/Sherman/T-34 genre, I try personally to tap in the nether regions of Chapter H for interesting vehicles/guns that dont normally make it out of the Plano
 

paulkenny

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For an interesting scenario (if I say so myself) check out Whirling Dervishes from my Fanatic Pack which features Italian Autosaharianas vs French Autocannon and assorted Truck mounted guns.
 

Harold

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What is becoming my issue and an issue with most of the local ASL'ers I play with is time. This means CG's ala RB and even smaller ones are being passed over. If I have say 4-5 hours every other week I am willing to allot to play ASL I do not want to spend it all setting up a CG date or getting in only 2.5 turns before having to stop. Couple that with "Real Life" and it can stretch more than a month(s). So big CG's are low in my book. Mini-CG's like the Arnhem mini that use regular boards or a small historical map coupled with scenario sizes and lengths that can be completed in one sitting would be cool. Regular scenarios are all starting to blend. Once you have seen 1000 you have seen the gamut. Pretty hard to wow me but I will continue to purchase and play new ones.
 

Roy

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How about Buda-Pest. Probably too much like RB, but could be cool.

While I'm not close to 1000 scens, I'm over 250, and 6 CG's. I'm not worn out on the big tanks, or the little tanks. Each scenario brings something new. Different opponents bring different looks to scenarios I've played before. I don't hesitate to play a scenario more than once. I don't shy from a scen because it's got a reputation as a woofer. I imagine my counters will wear out before I run out of things to do or enjoy in ASL. :rolleyes:
 

byouse

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paulkenny said:
BTW one of the vapor wares that MMP announced a while back was an Action Pack/HSASL set in Sicily.
It is only vaporware at this point because we decided to break up the project and use the scenarios and HASL in Journals instead.

The mini-HASL (Primosole Bridge) and four scenarios using that map (all German/British) will be in Journal #6.
 

Pfc TAZ

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In my opinion you can't have enough on the Western Desert. Lots of early war tanks, wide open tactical possibilites, 'nuff said. The rest are niches that I think would make quality Historical Modules.

#1 Western Desert 1940-2. Lots of possiblities here. Gazala. Compass.
#2 Italy's invasion of Greece (The Italians are so bad their fun)
#3 Crete (Maleme Airfield -- I think someone is working on this one)
#4 Warsaw Uprising (I personally think this one would RULE!)

Really I think that after AoO is released they should really focusing on Journals with mini campaigns. I would think that they are a good return on the investment for MMP and players alike.
 

Chas Argent

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The Purist said:
Well,...I may have a slight nationalistic bias but I believe "Ortona: Little Stalingrad" is about ready. Mix of urban combat within a rural setting with nifty new terrain (I've playtested this one). Its in line somewhere behind VotG, I believe. The MMP lads would have more info.
I am looking forward to this more than anything, especially after reading two books recently on the Canadian army in Italy.
 

Chas Argent

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Pfc TAZ said:
In my opinion you can't have enough on the Western Desert. Lots of early war tanks, wide open tactical possibilites, 'nuff said. The rest are niches that I think would make quality Historical Modules.

#1 Western Desert 1940-2. Lots of possiblities here. Gazala. Compass.
#2 Italy's invasion of Greece (The Italians are so bad their fun)
#3 Crete (Maleme Airfield -- I think someone is working on this one)
#4 Warsaw Uprising (I personally think this one would RULE!)
All four of these are already in the works; 1 (Crusader) & 2 by me, 3 by Shaun Carter (although this may focus more on Tavronitis Bridge) , and 4 by Mark Pitcavage.
 

paulkenny

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byouse said:
It is only vaporware at this point because we decided to break up the project and use the scenarios and HASL in Journals instead.

The mini-HASL (Primosole Bridge) and four scenarios using that map (all German/British) will be in Journal #6.

COOL, I MEAN COOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL :nuts: :cheeky: :D
 

Jack Dionne

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For who?

Chas Argent said:
All four of these are already in the works; 1 (Crusader) & 2 by me, 3 by Shaun Carter (although this may focus more on Tavronitis Bridge) , and 4 by Mark Pitcavage.
ChasArgent,
It this a private venture or is it official playtesting for MMP?
 

Pitman

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You were probably referring to the projects Chas was working on, but with regard to the Warsaw Uprising HASL project, it is being done by me for MMP. I have finished the "research stage" and now that I have moved into my new map, I am 1) working on the historical map and 2) starting the geomorphic map scenarios. It has a lot of work to go, because the amount of time I can spend on it is limited, but it should be very cool and despite the fact that it is a "city fight" should give a feel very unlike some other city fights that have seen print.
 

Chas Argent

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Jack said:
Chas Argent,
It this a private venture or is it official playtesting for MMP?
At the moment it's just me & a few friends. I'm simply trying to get them finished, which will be awhile, at the rate I'm going... :devious:
 

paulkenny

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Chas let me know if you are interested in rare vehicles for that project. Milmart, PzIFT etc.
 

Doughboy

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Petros said:
To expand upon the thread about 'What new Scenarios?', the question should be expanded to ask ‘What new WWII ASL battles are yet to be done and how should we do them?'
Our battles can be treated in a variety of ways: HASL, mini-campaign, regular scenarios.
HASLs and HSASL lend themselves best to set-piece battles using a historical map as the centerpiece. We lack a few well known battles here, especially Ponyri at Kursk but also Kohima and Cassino (HOB did this before - but it needs a new map ;) ). others? We are reaching a limit here IMO due to the time, expense, lack of good subject matter and lack of interest.
Mini-campaigns -a Pete Shellings invention – great idea. Might even justify making new 'historical geoboards' or large overlays designed to fit alongside or on other geoboards - but with a specific historical location. Permits us to cover larger areas (not set-piece),leverage the current boards, counters, rules, etc..
Regular scenarios: just keep using our current mix of components and geoboards.
I think one subject here is the matter of getting new components - we either want more counters or maps or something tangible to expand our battles and to add to our already bursting collections. We just want (don't need) more IMO. :hog: Nothing wrong there - it's only cardboard.
Don
To be fair, I think MMP should look into updating the system for modern conflicts. Considering that the Marines and the Army are now emphazing wargaming as an essential part of their training philosophy and given that the marines are using ASL for instructing purposes anyway there is an an obvious marketing opportunity for MMP to really win a lucrative contract (and lower their price per unit ;) ).

It would be a short leap to devise rules for ATGMs, newer armor and squad capabilities. Some could argue that the forces already have gaming systems to allow them to wargame. Well yes and no, the gaming is mostly first person systems that does not emphasis company/battalion level tactics. The other more prevalent game TACOPs is too a large scale to be relevant for field officiers to relate to at the company/battalion level. The one game that immediately comes to mind was the old SPI game Firefight, the grand daddy of them all. Originally designed for the military to emphazes small unit tactics it was quite success as a training tool though dated by today's standards.

Some could argue is pushing counters around the table still relevant in the Army or the Marines with the prevalence of computers? Absolutely, people can become way to lazy and careless with computers, the paperpushing forces people to think, and that's 90% of the job which saves lives! :(

Essentially, modern infantry combat has not changed all that much, just the tools have. Some of course could argue this is simply not the case, well granted tactical doctrines or command control were never modeled into the system to begin with that was left up to the players. This is just fine for the Marines who know quite well what their tactical doctrines are so unrealistic activity is curbed.

In a sense, the squad leader system probrably models modern combat better than WWII due to the omnisence of the players, this is because every squad has easy access to two-way communications thereby lessening the fog of war a touch. Yet, as with all things it all can get out of hand very quickly as the tempo of combat develops, as witnessed in "Black Hawk Down." :eek:

I for one would be quite interested in modeling some of the Arab and Israeli engagements circa Yom Kippur War (anniversary?). Then again it would be interesting to see how an M1 would compare to an old Tiger especially with all that Chobham armor. :cheeky:
 
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