What is this structure?

[lluis61]

No half depression was me taking issue with sort of ASL-speak not your English. ASL-speak is not really English sometimes.

Low depression is proper English...and then hints at ASL like deir, or slopes with three+ inward facing symbols....

But my gut says that shadow shows a depth of >= 10 feet and once you are at that mark your are really at a full depression...combined with my point why have a "rare****" Chap F rule for 1 hex?...

Yes, and a question that keeps coming to my head is "why this area wasn't contested in the battle?" And a possible answer to that is that it was so depressed as to be a trap to those who entered it and useless to defend it. Next question is: demolition of the walls could help to the defence? But, defenders had time to prepare that defences?

 

[Honza]

I don't think a deir is right Honza....too shallow. You should ask Jim Bishop his view on the shadow it cast in the pix. He could give you a pretty good benchmark...then read up on deirs. Then why make the rule load (assuming Jim says this is 10 feet deep or more, (i.e. an ASL level...like a house level....)... Deir seems wrong best I can tell at this point.

Hi Andy, In my opinion it is not a shadow. It stays on the left hand side regardless of which direction the sun is shining. It is probably spoil, foliage, debris etc. I'm sticking with a half-level depression - IOW a deir. They are not complicated.

 

[Honza]

Just look at this photo and in particular the direction of the sun. That is no shadow.

 

[Honza]

Yes, and a question that keeps coming to my head is "why this area wasn't contested in the battle?"

Hi Lluis, This particular section of Stalingrad was not captured by the Germans. It was still holding out while the fight for the Commissars house was going on.

 

[lluis61]

Just look at this photo and in particular the direction of the sun. That is no shadow.

View attachment 11128

Right. But that means is a midday photo. Now we have a midday, an afteronon and a morning photo...

 

[Honza]

Right. But that means is a midday photo. Now we have a midday, an afteronon and a morning photo...

Yes and the dark bit (the shadow) remains stationary....it does not change with the sun.

 

[lluis61]

Hi Lluis, This particular section of Stalingrad was not captured by the Germans. It was still holding out while the fight for the Commissars house was going on.

In the maps of the fightin for Barrikady it always seem a "no-man's-land" and in the great crisis of that factory, it seems uncontested. But I could be mistaken

 

[lluis61]

Yes and the dark bit (the shadow) remains stationary....it does not change with the sun.

It changes. Slightly, at first view, but resize all the images to same scale and you'll see the shadow it's not the same. But, at any case, depression seems the thing proper

 

[Justiciar]

Hi Andy, In my opinion it is not a shadow. It stays on the left hand side regardless of which direction the sun is shining. It is probably spoil, foliage, debris etc. I'm sticking with a half-level depression - IOW a deir. They are not complicated.

Hi...

My view that down hill looking "slope" (not ASL slope) in the upper right of the pix of the "thing" shows more than a 'deir' depression.

But I bow to those with better skills than I. I wait to hear what Bishops thinks...

Andy

 

[jrv]

Is it possible it's a dirt track?

How big was NASCAR in the Soviet Union?

JR

 

[RandyT0001]

Is it possible it's a dirt track?

How big was NASCAR in the Soviet Union?

In the Soviet Union they compete with T-26s in the light tank category, T-34s in the medium tank, and KV 1s in the heavy division. Not really a race, more like a demolition derby.

 

[Sparafucil3]

Just look at this photo and in particular the direction of the sun. That is no shadow.

View attachment 11128

In this photo, that looks like it is actually a cut through some sort of hill. The bottom of that could be filled with water or something too which would confuse the shadow. Wish I could get this on film/paper and take a loupe to it. -- jim

 

[RandyT0001]

In this photo, that looks like it is actually a cut through some sort of hill. The bottom of that could be filled with water or something too which would confuse the shadow. Wish I could get this on film/paper and take a loupe to it. -- jim

Look at the medium gray top sediment layer of the bluff by the river next to the light, almost white road curve that bends close to the river (yellow arrows).
A small section of that gray color is on the other side of that road, indicating a downward slope to the lighter gray material of the next sedimentary layer as seen in the bluff (brown arrows). The longer dark line below the railway line. Zoom in and see a medium gray layer of that uppermost sedimentary layer under the railroad. The darker layer is vegetation. The railroad is on an embankment IMO.

 

[Fort]

Those dark patches on either side of the track/road are likely foliage of some sort.
i sent the latest photo posted here to my friend, he’s going to show it around next time he is in Volgograd.

 

[Honza]

In the maps of the fightin for Barrikady it always seem a "no-man's-land" and in the great crisis of that factory, it seems uncontested. But I could be mistaken

I am taking my info from the "Stalingrad Battle Atlas" by Anton Joly. According to him it is not until Nov. 11th that area was finally captured by the Germans. The German 389th Division reinforced with 3 Pionier battalions and assault guns advances north of the Barricades factory right up to the Volga. Crushing the 118th Guards regiment of the 138th Russian Infantry Division. This was on the 138th Division right flank.

 

[Honza]

I just checked Glantz's book and he confirms what Joly says. It was with monumental effort that this corner of the brickworks was finally captured on the 11th Nov.

 

[xenovin]

If the center area was a depression, there would be a shadow in the bottom-right of the feature, same as the gullies, but there is no such shadow. I thought it might be a small rise but again, there is no shadow along the northern side (except a very small one -wall?). I agree with the dark material on the left hand side.

 

[von Marwitz]

The shadow is on the wrong side for that to be a depression. If it was a depression, that big black shadow on the top of the area would be bathed in sunlight, no? Assuming those other structures are above ground.

View attachment 11116

Just my thinking with regard to the cast shadow. And for that reason my first impression was that it could be some sort of heap or stockpile. There were some in the area of the fighting I believe. But the overall shape seems atypical for a stockpile.

Edit:
Truly excellent picture by Honza!

von Marwitz

 

[von Marwitz]

I have found a better image. Date 8/23/42 0407 1607 hrs (possibly German time)
View attachment 11122

Alas, that image is very small. Do you have a link or a file maybe?

Cheers,
von Marwitz

 

[Honza]

Alas, that image is very small. Do you have a link or a file maybe?

Cheers,
von Marwitz

Try this....