What happened to the Partisan module...

[Tater]

That said, in some countries (la belle France, I'm looking at you) the extent of partisan activity has certainly been exaggerrated to obfuscate a more general story of dishonourable collaboration.

Funny...in Germany after the war you couldn't find a single person that was a member of (or supported) the Nazi party...in France, after the war, EVERYONE was a member of a Partisan group.

 

[olli]

White cores anyone?

And in two variants of counters, clipped and unclipped..........

 

[olli]

Okay, i'll buy a copy, but you just HAVE to put in a scenario using the home-build danish armored car on display in kopenhagen. It was actually used, must be a great story for a scenario in there.

Check it on the lowest picture on this website:

http://www.copenhagenpictures.dk/gefion.html

Hey I got pictures of this from a school trip in 74!!!!

 

[Michael Dorosh]

That said, in some countries (la belle France, I'm looking at you) the extent of partisan activity has certainly been exaggerrated to obfuscate a more general story of dishonourable collaboration.

In some cases, yes. There is a rich history of collaborationist and anti-occupation forces in France, and the popular culture really hasn't captured much of this. Though one really wouldn't expect it to. For those willing to take the time to dig deep into the literature available in English surrounding the wide variety of military forces in France from 1940 to 1944-45, you get a much deeper sense of how diverse people's motivations were. We laugh off the "threat" of communism today, having seen how badly it failed in the Soviet Union and eastern Europe, but it was a very real motivator to groups in France, as hard as it may be to relate to now.

You use the word "dishonour" with regard to collaboration, but there were many - perhaps millions - of French who may not have been so quick to judge. Life was harsh under German occupation, but could have been much harsher. After the Dieppe Raid, for example, the German garrison commander noted that the citizenry had acted 'correctly' and rewarded the population by the return of their sons - literally. There is a famous photo of an elderly Dieppe man embracing his son, to that point a prisoner of war in Germany for two years, and released from captivity in the autumn of 1942 as part of that reward to the Dieppe population for not interfering during the fighting. They did not actively "collaborate" in any sense, but the Germans were able to make propaganda hay out of the affair.

There were various militia groups on the side of the Germans, each with their own motivations, and resistance groups, and political infighting among the latter. It was not always a case of Germans vs. Frenchmen; there were political overtones that do not always get mentioned in polite company, and all the Resistance was not one happy anti-Fascist family. Fear of communism and eyes to the political future of post-war France were sometimes thrown into the mix; it would be unfair to say that motives for collaborating with the Germans were entirely "dishonourable." But of course, the deportation of the Jews don't do much to provide sympathy for the collaborators, but do well to confuse the issue.

 

[Pitman]

I don't think that was the case. Anti-partisan activities by the Axis was a considerable distraction, tying down combat units and disrupting supply lines and communications with the front.

Partisan units were able to engage in significant warfare in China, Yugoslavia, Albania, Poland, France, Italy, Burma, the Philippines, Lithuania, and Ukraine, among other places, as well as noteworthy combat actions in Greece, Bulgaria, the Soviet Union (various places), Belgium, and Vietnam. In some of these cases they were able to engage in extended offensive conventional warfare.

 

[Delirium]

There were various militia groups on the side of the Germans, each with their own motivations, and resistance groups, and political infighting among the latter. It was not always a case of Germans vs. Frenchmen; there were political overtones that do not always get mentioned in polite company, and all the Resistance was not one happy anti-Fascist family. Fear of communism and eyes to the political future of post-war France were sometimes thrown into the mix; it would be unfair to say that motives for collaborating with the Germans were entirely "dishonourable." But of course, the deportation of the Jews don't do much to provide sympathy for the collaborators, but do well to confuse the issue.

You're right, in the sense that it was a complex situation, and active resistance was a brave path to tread. However, I think that the French response to occupation varied; many fought, many did not - some even welcomed the death of the Republic and some of the Nazi's more repugnant policies. The Germans had no monopoly on European anti-semitism. Vichy France was not France's finest moment. Collaboration was, at times, dishonourable in the extreme - we need only think of the deportation of the French Jews.

 

[Delirium]

Partisan units were able to engage in significant warfare in China, Yugoslavia, Albania, Poland, France, Italy, Burma, the Philippines, Lithuania, and Ukraine, among other places, as well as noteworthy combat actions in Greece, Bulgaria, the Soviet Union (various places), Belgium, and Vietnam. In some of these cases they were able to engage in extended offensive conventional warfare.

Indeed - perhaps I should have qualifed my "considerable distraction" characterisation - partisan activities were a considerable distraction at the grand strategic level, and locally, as your many examples attest, were extremely problematic for the Axis.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

You're right, in the sense that it was a complex situation, and active resistance was a brave path to tread. However, I think that the French response to occupation varied; many fought, many diod not - some even welcomed the death of the Republic and some of the Nazi's more repugnant policies. Vichy France was not France's finest moment. Collaboration was, at times, dishonourable in the extreme - we need only think of the deportation of the French Jews.

Good points all around; the question of genocide does tend to complicate just about all the other questions associated with the Second World War (understatement). It's only in the wake of the post-1945 revelations that they have that air of obviousness about them; anti-Semetism was still something you could put aside or at least weigh equally with other political considerations before the whole story of the death camps was proven beyond shadow of doubt at Nuremberg in all its disgusting detail. By that, I mean that not everything was measured morally in terms of how much it was helping or hurting the Nazis and their pogroms (not just the 6 million, of course, but there was also the 6 million more...) Since the war, though, everything is understandably measured out of proportion to how much aid it gave the Nazis. French anti-Communists or pro-Vichy groups fighting for their own aims might have nothing at all to do with the Holocaust, but if one group indirectly aided the German aim in France, the postwar observer lazily connects the dots and one set of imperatives makes the fight somehow about something else to fit their preconceptions.

 

[Tater]

I don't think that was the case. Anti-partisan activities by the Axis was a considerable distraction, tying down combat units and disrupting supply lines and communications with the front.

That said, in some countries (la belle France, I'm looking at you) the extent of partisan activity has certainly been exaggerrated to obfuscate a more general story of dishonourable collaboration.

In any event, it usually wasn;t the partisans who were summarily executed - it was 10 or 12 hapless villagers who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

It was a joke...who would have thought that mentioning "zombies" was still to subtle for some.

 

[kempenfelter]

I would sign up to play-test Partisan module scenarios, though I guess that is far down the road.

 

[Ray Woloszyn]

Mark better put the pedal to the metal as CH has a more narrow focused Partisan module (Soviet Union) in the works. I think Larry Winslow is working on it. I would not hold my breath for either right now given the work involved on one hand and CH's publication schedule on the other. I do like the look of the CH's new partisan counters. They look like destitute senior citizens or aged, credit card maxed out due to module-itis Advanced Squad Leader players.

 

[Pitman]

Larry Winslow is doing a HASL type thing; I don't really view it as competition for what I am working on. As long as he avoids revetments, he ought to be fine.

 

['Ol Fezziwig]

It will be good to see the Partisans infused with some spunk/excitement/icing...

Then you might want to wait for Psycho's Partisan Module, then... :kotz:

 

[Psycho]

Then you might want to wait for Psycho's Partisan Module, then... :kotz:

You couldn't handle my spunk, you old dirty bird! :angry:

 

[AZslim]

Larry Winslow is doing a HASL type thing; I don't really view it as competition for what I am working on. As long as he avoids revetments, he ought to be fine.

You mean like the ones in King Of The Hill?

 

[Jerry Simmons]

Then you might want to wait for Psycho's Partisan Module, then... :kotz:

Nah, that guy runs a garage operation. I mean, he's a garage. No, he's a trailer. Anyway, he's not professional like the WBW.

 

[RobZagnut]

Then you might want to wait for Psycho's Partisan Module, then... :kotz:

Psycho's Partisan module? I can see it now... Coming to a store near you:

The Hillbillies, Cousins and Hound Dogs module. With a special Trailer Park mapboard.

 

[dlazov]

Hey Hillbillies are people too! You forgot rednecks, there is a big difference between Hillbillies and rednecks.

 

[AZslim]

Hey Hillbillies are people too! You forgot rednecks, there is a big difference between Hillbillies and rednecks.

What would that be? I live in probabaly the reddest neck state in the Union, not many hillbillies, though.

 

[dlazov]

The Hillbillies come from the Virgina mountain area and are know for their moon-shining actives, long ranged rifles and hatred of the 'government'. They also killed that British General Ferguson when he threatened their ways of life up on that hill back in 1780 and you don't know too much about them except what they wanted you to know with the fake Hollywood movies about them.

Rednecks just drink beer, look like Psycho, have strange damp and dirty basements, wear baseball caps, cut their sleeves off and do the Rebel yell.

Just sayin...:smoke: