What do you think about ebay?

Gunner Scott

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Hi Jay-

your right, I really am trying to tone it down. But blaming eBay for ASL prices is just wrong. I'll leave it at that.


Scott


Jay White said:
Scott, you should try to limit your MMP complaints a bit. I find its more powerful to select your moments to complain. At this point, I would suspect that most people (especially MMP) "turn off" when they see your posts. i.e. they're not listening.

I don't think thats what you want. I think you have some good points, though.

-Jay
 

R.S. Barker

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My own take on Ebay:

When I wanted to test the waters of SL and ASL, I first did the research - searching through completed transactions and seeing what the high/low and average was for each item.

Then I picked and chose which auctions for those items fell into that max range I would be willing to pay. In both instances, I was within 4 bucks of the low bid on SL and the ASLRB when I won.

The other thing I've found is that the idea of sniping only works IF your convinced you can indeed win the auction at the last minute, and it can also cost you more money in the long run because you may get caught up in the bidding war.

In my example, I saw a WW2 bomber jacket that was going to be very expensive, given 2 previous auctions had minted 856 and 923 for a similar item. There were 9 days left when I found the auction and finished my research. In a normal case, I'd have sniped, but felt that this item would be too wide open for bids - given the previous 2 had 26 and 23 total at close.

So, I immediately placed a 875 dollar bid and waited. By the end of the auction, there were 19 bids, and I won the item for $626. So in this case, I saved over 250 bucks.

The bottom line for me is simple:

I research, then decide my max bid, and if the item is a high priced affair, you can be sure I will bid early and set the bar high and for the most part - win. If I don't, I can sleep safe in the knowledge that the winning bidder simply wanted to pay more than he/she should have had to.

I've done this with all of my ebay wins, and in that time, I've lost 1 auction in 6 years on Ebay. In all regards, I've never paid the high, but have always gotten the item for closer to the low bid than even the average.

Try it, it works.
 

Gen. blunder

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I like Ebay

I like Ebay but not for ASL products i only purchased "Out of the attic", however for gamers products you can get reasonable prices for even out of print games exept fot some OCS
Like
- Hube's pocket
-Burma
And if your interested in some other out of print games it can be interesting.
 

GVL

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A year ago, I bought Beyond Valor on e-bay for 50 dollar. Further, I bought mounted maps 1,2,3,4.
I'm happy with it. It made me become an ASL-addict.
E-bay is the only solution as long MMP isn't ready with their OOP-products.
 

Dr Zaius

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Countertroll said:
Scott,
your J2 comments are ill advised. A proliferation of people printing VASL maps instead of buying them can force the hand of MMP to act against VASL, and that would be a sad day for us all.
No that wouldn't be a sad day, it would likely be a death sentence for ASL.
 

rdw5150

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Jay White said:
Scott, you should try to limit your MMP complaints a bit. I find its more powerful to select your moments to complain. At this point, I would suspect that most people (especially MMP) "turn off" when they see your posts. i.e. they're not listening.

I don't think thats what you want. I think you have some good points, though.

-Jay
Agreed.

If you did not bash MMP at every chance, perhaps people would listen to what you had to say, but, I fear a lot of what you say is lost on the fact that all you do is bash MMP.

just a thought anyway, this being the Internet you can post what you want, but may end up getting ignored in the process.

Peace

Roger
 

rdw5150

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RS Barker makes good points.

Do research, decide what you will pay, bid it and let it ride.

I think that people get caught up in the whole "Auction" mentality and end up paying way to much for stuff.

I think that he also makes a good point with regard "high" priced item. If you bid a lot up front (once again, what you are willing topay and not more), people will get discouraged and stop bidding.

I have gotten a lot of killer deals on E-bay, ya just have to be patient and not go nuts and enter into a bidding war :D

Peace

Roger
 

Gunner Scott

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No problem, I wont bash MMP anymore or at least be very limited in my bashing.

Scott

rdw5150 said:
Agreed.

If you did not bash MMP at every chance, perhaps people would listen to what you had to say, but, I fear a lot of what you say is lost on the fact that all you do is bash MMP.

just a thought anyway, this being the Internet you can post what you want, but may end up getting ignored in the process.

Peace

Roger
 

rdw5150

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sure Scott, sure :D

You're just here to keep pokin' that bear :p

Peace

Roger
 

Victor

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SGT HOLST said:
Well Victor, dont blame eBay for the prices and out of print stuff, blame MMP. They are the ones who are supposed to be the care takers of ASL not eBay.


Scott
Allow me to clarify that I don't hold Ebay responsible for the ridiculous prices of out of print ASL material. I blame the sellers for letting it go into auction format. People have a choice to use Buy it now, rather than robbing them blind in an auction. Put it this way, if I'm a newbie thinking about how hard it is to get oop items because of the dumb mark up in bidding, I'm going to pass on ASL and look to the next system. I think if we really want the ASL hobby to be promoted we should be selling our superfluous asl items at face value in the Buy it Now only format not in auction format. I just feel it's not right trying to make a quick buck off a newb (JMHO). I don't hold MMP responsible for the price gouging either, it's always the sellers choice of format!
Victor
 

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I have bought a huge # of ASL-related things on E-bay--much of my collection, as a matter of fact. One thing I have observed is that E-bay is very unpredictable and goes through phases. For some time, one of the ASL Annuals--I think it was the 1992 annual--would regularly go for $100 or more. Then that stopped. Sometimes this is because once people see what prices an item is getting, they all sell their own in order to cash in, and then the market is flooded. Sometimes it is just for inexplicable reasons.

I agree that $150 for Journal 2 is ridiculous. Why is it ridiculous? Because enough copies of Journal 2 were printed that, even considering it has a map and counters, there will actually be a fair number of "floating" copies. $150 is more than a typical Time on Target will go for, and each of those had a far smaller print run than Journal 2.

Blaming MMP for this, of course, is ridiculous. Nobody expects MMP to keep Journals in print, just as we don't expect Sports Illustrated to reprint all its older issues.
 

da priest

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pitman said:
...Sometimes it is just for inexplicable reasons.

....Blaming MMP for this, of course, is ridiculous. Nobody expects MMP to keep Journals in print, just as we don't expect Sports Illustrated to reprint all its older issues.
Agree with 90% of what you say here(geezus did I say that?), but the KR map, KR rules and the included countersheet should be considered for a reprint, when things settle down to a dull roar, after the new layout folks get involved(I hope that happens).
 

Gunner Scott

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Now this last statement is just so out there, Unlike SI, the Journal is apart of the ASL system, the counters are needed to correct what misprinted in DB, ABtF, and so on. Some times Mark, I wonder why you make such sweeping statements, perhaps as Ron would say, newbie thing.

Victor, sorry you feel that way and blame the seller's for the prices of OOP modules. Perhaps I should sell my spider-man number 1 for 12 cents on eBay.

pitman said:
Blaming MMP for this, of course, is ridiculous. Nobody expects MMP to keep Journals in print, just as we don't expect Sports Illustrated to reprint all its older issues.
 

paulkenny

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Don Maddox said:
No that wouldn't be a sad day, it would likely be a death sentence for ASL.
Yes but isnt it a fact of life given the unavailability of a vast number of system components?

Raise your hand if yuo own photocopied scenarios!
 

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Mark,

The difference between SI and an ASL Journal is that one is dated, the other never will be. While I'm guessing there are no more than a dozen people on the entire planet that might want to read a 1987 SI article about how Eric Davis is the second coming of Willie Mays, that's not the case with an ASL Journal.

The Journals contain things that are timeless... helpful articles on gameplay, scenarios, and in the case of J2 maps and counters. These have value beyond an initial reading, which 99.9% of SI's issues do not.

I can't see reprinting these items, as it's expensive and after a certain time period simply not worth the effort. But making the Annuals and Journals available in PDF format after the printed material goes OOP, and keeping any maps and counters in stock as component purchases, would make a lot of sense and keep the eBay insanity to a minimum.

Darrell
 
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Aries

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I don't think eBay is any more responsible for idiots paying 150 bucks for a J2, than a liquor store is responsible for selling liquor to people that won't drink responsibly.

There either really actually truely IS a demand for J2, or there isn't.

If their genuinely IS a market for J2, and MMP really COULD be selling reprints at a decent profit, then I have only one thing to say on the matter.
MMP is as stupid as those paying 150 bucks for J2.

If there really ISN'T a real market for J2, and these sales are flukes, then I can only pity the people that can't play the game in its absence.

You can rest assured, if I was the original source for J2, and it was common knowledge it could be sold for 150 bucks used (anything not from MMP is used as far as I am concerned), and regularly, then I would be printing more so that the money was going in my pocket, and not some faceless person on eBay.

eBay isn't doing anything wrong here.
Nor is anyone selling it for 150 bucks.
If I had a second copy of J2, and I could get 150 bucks for it, yes I would likely say cool, the sale just paid for something I want that I can't afford right now otherwise.
A spare copy of J2 right now might mean several ASL items currently exceeding my potential. And as a result not up for consideration.
AoO for instance.
You guys might call it a core module or not (AoO). But chances are the price tag will make it remain a "I have played ASL for years without it, thus it is not a required" module.

150 bucks for the sake of a few counters that might have corrections on them, entirely insane.
I have those images scanned. I am more than willing to do what I have always done for board games that had an eratta fix publicaly made availble, I made them myself.
Good quality printer coupled with a good quality paper stock = replacement counters.
And you can sure bet, I wouldn't waste a single second playing a single person that would indignantly refuse to let me use them in any game of ASL.

If the game can't be made/sold for realistic prices (realistic for both MMP and the consumer), then it is time to accept the reality.

The more I think about it, the more I realise, the best way to get an ASL starter for some, will be with a scanner and a good printer.
Home made copy of some good board choices, home made copy of some counters selected specifically because they are basic in nature, copy of Chapter A and B and the there you have it.

That will horrify some.
It won't horrify any potential ASL player that is told "hey this game is great, if you really want to check it out, take this home and test it with this loaner".
It sure won't horrify a person being told the game is great, that they don't have to pay ANYTHING to try out the game on their own table at home eh.
Might not do MMP any good sales wise.
But then MMP looks and feels like a "hobby" business some days.
If MMP shut done tomorrow, it would mean no more "NEW" ASL. It sure wouldn't mean no more ability for me to play it.
If MMP closed its doors tomorrow, I would simply do what I have always known I could do, I would go on.
 

paulkenny

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Victor said:
Allow me to clarify that I don't hold Ebay responsible for the ridiculous prices of out of print ASL material. I blame the sellers for letting it go into auction format. People have a choice to use Buy it now, rather than robbing them blind in an auction. Put it this way, if I'm a newbie thinking about how hard it is to get oop items because of the dumb mark up in bidding, I'm going to pass on ASL and look to the next system. I think if we really want the ASL hobby to be promoted we should be selling our superfluous asl items at face value in the Buy it Now only format not in auction format. I just feel it's not right trying to make a quick buck off a newb (JMHO). I don't hold MMP responsible for the price gouging either, it's always the sellers choice of format!
Victor
Oh come on this is the most ridiculous argument I've heard in a long time and I regularly argue with Pitman, Tate, Wolkster and others.

If you dont want it at a high price dont bid. Simple as that. If someone has $150 to spend on a rare item, why should I accept less? Because some newbie needs this rare item? peshah!! There is plenty of stuff available (scenario, map, etc) for a newbie to get into the game. And It is up to MMP to make sure the core stuff is available, especially Rulebook and BV!
 

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paulkenny said:
Oh come on this is the most ridiculous argument I've heard in a long time and I regularly argue with Pitman, Tate, Wolkster and others.

If you dont want it at a high price dont bid. Simple as that. If someone has $150 to spend on a rare item, why should I accept less? Because some newbie needs this rare item? peshah!! There is plenty of stuff available (scenario, map, etc) for a newbie to get into the game. And It is up to MMP to make sure the core stuff is available, especially Rulebook and BV!

...and the newbie without the cash resources moves on to a new gaming system...MMP must do their part in keeping the core available, no doubt...in the mean time we can help my selling our extra copies of v1. at normal prices to bring more people to ASL. That rare copy of TOT is not what I'm talking about...that is not needed by the newbie to promote the hobby. (i.e. you certainly should expect to get more than 12 cents for your number 1 spiderman Scott). I'm talking about doing our part to help newbies instead of letting them maim each other and pushing others away from the hobby.

Victor
 
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