What do you make of ambulation so far?

[Dr Zaius]

Opinions on this upcoming expansion to the EVE Online universe seem to be split, with a lot of people expressing concern it will alter the "tone" and "feel" of the game.

Are you looking forward to ambulation or do you see this as CCP wasting time and money that could be better used on other aspects of EVE Online?

 

[pward]

I see it as a pointless addition to a spaceship centered game.

I've read the designers notes that ambulation was in the original idea for the game, seamless immersion in the EVE universe from the ground to the spacecraft. I just don't see the need now that EVE is many years old and primarily geared to the spaceflight part. (Which needs some more work in certain areas.)

In the end, it's their game to expand as they see fit. Like wormholes though, (and lo-sec/null-sec, I most likely won't be going into the station for anything, unless absolutely necessary.

 

[Dr Zaius]

For me it depends on what you can do in the stations. If there are really interesting places to visit and new ways to interact with fellow EVE players and make some ISK, I likely will visit the stations from time to time. I won't do it if it's just an ISK sink.

I think CCP really needs to put some thought into this and give players a compelling reason to use it, otherwise it will just be a gimmick. CCP seems to be taking their time on this one, which is probably a good thing given the complexity of such an undertaking. When you get right down to it, this is almost the equivalent of coding an entirely new MMO -- one that has to work within the confines of an existing MMO. No easy task.

 

[pward]

I'm seeing it as a gimick to get more players online and paying. There are those folks who enjoy the socializing "in person" and "in character". Generally speaking I don't object to that.

It's the childish "I will dance nekid for tips" antics that don't really belong. Waste of my time and not appropriate for some age groups of players (even if it's not very detailed).

Have I missed something, is this up on the test server or just some more screen shots and hype?

 

[Dr Zaius]

No, it's not up on the test server or anything. But I imagine we'll get some new videos and screens from Fanfest.

 

[Chaim628]

hmm, if it is just to do some sightseeing this will get boring pretty fast. If you could hold actual meetings (with in-game TS) and even combat that might be another thing, you could actually capture a POS eg.
This seems to be 1 year old stuff that never got implemented, probably because of the added complexity and challenge to make this interesting and manageable at the same time. Do they actually perform customer surveys to figure out if people really want this ?
And if they do, with what priority...

 

[Dr Zaius]

I think it will be more than just walking around. Check this out:

[YOUTUBE]abMEVENz1jQ[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]5l_ZjVyRxx4[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Chaim628]

From what you see here it is only little more. Interactive meetings seem to be possible but any form of warfare looks out...:upset:

 

[Speedy]

I want to set up a casino and make iskies.

 

[avl90]

From what you see here it is only little more. Interactive meetings seem to be possible but any form of warfare looks out...:upset:

Right... and all that they amount to is visual fluff for an already perfectly function in-game voice network anyhow.

I think Eve needs this, but it needs to be an important functional part of the game, not just fluff.

 

[pward]

I think Eve needs this, but it needs to be an important functional part of the game, not just fluff.

I disagree.

Adding ambulation may be a good marketing move, or the completion of the basic intent of the game. However, now that the game is 6 (or so?) years old and established, adding ambulation now seems like adding dice to a game of chess or poker. It won't be the same game as before.

I would much rather see some randomization in missions. With the mission reference sites out there, they are far too easy. With repetition, I'm bored running the same level 4s over and over again. Knowing your opponent ahead of time makes for easy defensive and offensive fitting, and is another PvE not working like PvP difference in the game. If you had to omni-tank, only knowing it might be "pirates of some sort", before a mission; it would be a closer comparison to actual PvP fits.

Or even mixed missions, half way through the defending Guristas, a squadron of Angel Cartel ships shows up. "We heard the Guristas distress calls, we are going to take all the loot for ourselves!"

Delivery missions where you have to survive a 15km run to a "station" to deliver the goods. (Practice for gate camps?)

Looking at the effort, my preference would be for more content on the existing things, than time spent on such a massively different feel to the game.

 

[Dr Zaius]

It seems that a lot of people who have run level 4's in the past are now turning to wormhole exploration. I suppose WH space is a form of PvE, however, there are a lot of PvPers looking to crash the party and catch the explorers in a bad situation. All of which makes WH space a hybrid PvE/PvP type of play. True, you could run level 4's in low-sec, but that wouldn't offer the same type of challenges that WH space offers.

I've learned the hard way that doing level 4's in low-sec is a waste of time and money. There are simply too many pirates and mission busters, and they tend to get greedy and overfarm the mission runners to the point where it's not worth it. So the mission runners go back to high-sec and then we get complaints that high-sec should be nerfed because no one will come to low-sec. Well duh!

I just moved out to 0.0 so we'll see how that goes.

As far as ambulation goes, I think it has potential. That said, CCP will have to offer some features and gameplay types via ambulation that aren't available via space, otherwise who will bother?

 

[avl90]

Firstly to get this out of the way: I think there is room for improvement in other areas of the game too. I don't think Ambulation is necessarily the most important one either. I just think it would be a good thing, provided it added another dimension to the game.

That said... there was a great podcast on Shut up We're Talking (or it might have been Warp Drive Active) where they talked about a user request for "more intelligent and challenging AI" in missions and rat belts.

When I first heard the question and their disagreement, initially I thought "That's dumb, who wouldn't want a better AI?"... but as the discussion continued they raised some really good points about what an MMO is at different levels. I recommend it. (And I'm too lazy to reiterate the argument, sorry. )

 

[pward]

As far as ambulation goes, I think it has potential. That said, CCP will have to offer some features and gameplay types via ambulation that aren't available via space, otherwise who will bother?

The same types that hang around towns/bars/cantinas/etc. in other MMO's and do nothing but dance emotes with their armor removed for tips. Unless there is a benefit to un-podding and walking around, I won't do it just for kicks. Some will, but I don't need to waste time un-podding and re-podding before takeoff just to watch the pretty scenery or see my CEO's avatar "in the flesh".

Generally speaking, if you want to play the game that way, go ahead, but the only advantage to the existing playerbase for those additional gamers is more money headed into MMP coffers. Balanced by the now split effort to support two games, the ship one and the ambulation one...

 

[pward]

When I first heard the question and their disagreement, initially I thought "That's dumb, who wouldn't want a better AI?"... but as the discussion continued they raised some really good points about what an MMO is at different levels. I recommend it. (And I'm too lazy to reiterate the argument, sorry. )

From my few forays into WH space, the sleeper AI should be retro-fitted to all existing NPCs. Whatever metrics for "aggro" they were using, they made it much harder for our group to eliminate the spawns.

We did develop some "taunt" mechanics with battle-cruisers/command-ships and gang links, or just stopping DPS to try to get them to switch targets. Sometimes they would switch when we started remote repping, etc. We even had to warp out on occasion for the harder encounters. In a regular mission, that's almost a certainty of never getting the aggro again. Not so in WH space.

They might have to alter the spawn compositions for some missions, likely reducing the number of active NPC at any one time, which would hopefully assist in lag prevention.

 

[avl90]

I get the feeling you aren't going to listen to the podcast.

 

[Dr Zaius]

From my few forays into WH space, the sleeper AI should be retro-fitted to all existing NPCs. Whatever metrics for "aggro" they were using, they made it much harder for our group to eliminate the spawns.

If they do that, then a buff to drones would be in order. Gallente get a huge amount of their DPs from drones and the sleepers eat drones for breakfast. With a side order of bacon.

 

[pward]

If they do that, then a buff to drones would be in order. Gallente get a huge amount of their DPs from drones and the sleepers eat drones for breakfast. With a side order of bacon.

Definite balance issue, but how does that compare to PvP? Are drones in some cases the initial targets to reduce the DPS incoming when another human is involved? (Or the remote rep, or ECM).

 

[Dr Zaius]

Definite balance issue, but how does that compare to PvP? Are drones in some cases the initial targets to reduce the DPS incoming when another human is involved? (Or the remote rep, or ECM).

Yes. PvPers don't simply stand there and allow enemy drones to chew through their defenses. In 0.0 it's not uncommon to see smartbombs being put to use, which isn't viable elsewhere because of Concord. Also, there is much greater use of ECM of all types, which is a killer if you aren't fitted to defend against that sort of attack.

 

[pward]

Also, there is much greater use of ECM of all types, which is a killer if you aren't fitted to defend against that sort of attack.

There are a few Guristas missions that use heavy ECM, I get tired quickly of the message "you can't lock anymore targets than 0". :upset: It's a good time to reload when it happens though.

There are a couple (can't remember faction) where something else is being used against me, painters I think, but I'm still shooting and targeting. I really like the missions with weapon dampeners when I'm in my Nighthawk... Oh Noes! My turret tracking has been reduced!!! What shall I do???