What are MMP's other games like please?

JoeArthur

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With the new MMP website up I was looking at their other games.

Anyone play any of these? What are they like please?
 

Robin Reeve

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The games originally from The Gamers (SCS and OCS) are excellent - OCS have rather important stress on logistics (not my peace of cake), the SCS are a simple, classic system (move-combat-exploit, ZOCs, etc.).
The Area Movement too.
I cannot tell about the others.
 

owenedwards

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GCACW is excellent, not difficult at all but very good at teaching black powder operational warfare. I'm slowly learning OCS, very funky. CWBS/NBS/LOB has a great system, very unique and trailblazing many ways - written orders system, roster sheets, and unusual combat system.

The "A Victory Lost" system is simple and widely recommended - chit pull WW2 operational. I have Shifting Sands and Fire in the Sky - both widely praised WW2 games - but haven't got them to the table.
 

Gamer72

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Which ones are you interested in Joe ?
 

CTKnudsen

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I am actually more into GCACW than I am into ASL right now - I've been looking for a non-tactical ACW game for ages (on computer, mostly), but GCACW's initiative system makes for an outstandingly variable experience that I think recreates really well the challenges facing operational commanders at the time.
 

Mister T

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One can find quite a few good games in the international game series.

I can imagine that are some specialists of OCS around but the maps are a complete turn-off imo (plus the excessive stress on logistics).
 

Jazz

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One can find quite a few good games in the international game series.

I can imagine that are some specialists of OCS around but the maps are a complete turn-off imo (plus the excessive stress on logistics).
Looking at the SCS (Standard Combat Series) games they look like OCS with the overload on logistics cut out.

I am still in the hunt for a VASSAL opponent for an exploratory game of 11th Panzer on the Chir, Rostov '41, or Autumn for Barbarossa.
 

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Looking at the SCS (Standard Combat Series) games they look like OCS with the overload on logistics cut out.

I am still in the hunt for a VASSAL opponent for an exploratory game of 11th Panzer on the Chir, Rostov '41, or Autumn for Barbarossa.
OCS? OMOOT. Tried looking it up on the Google but none of the answers seemed to apply. 🙄
 

JoeArthur

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Which ones are you interested in Joe ?
Hi Ian.

I saw DAK (part of the operational combat series) for sale on eBay here in the UK a while ago. The price (very expensive) and the description got me wondering what the game system was like. The description stated that you needed a barn to lay the map out fully.

So looking at the new website I got to wondering what this stuff was like. Am I missing out on something?

Also the business part of my brain kicked in and I wondered how successful MMP was in producing non ASL stuff.

Do you play any of the other MMP products?
 

Gamer72

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Hi Ian.

I saw DAK (part of the operational combat series) for sale on eBay here in the UK a while ago. The price (very expensive) and the description got me wondering what the game system was like. The description stated that you needed a barn to lay the map out fully.

So looking at the new website I got to wondering what this stuff was like. Am I missing out on something?

Also the business part of my brain kicked in and I wondered how successful MMP was in producing non ASL stuff.

Do you play any of the other MMP products?
Hi Joe,

I’ve tried OCS, not keen - too much logistics for my liking. SCS is fairly simple, some good and some ‘meh’. Afrika II & the Bastogne one are about the best. BCS is really good, and the new one has just gone on preorder. For the non-Gamers stuff, Warriors Of God is a very enjoyable 2-player on the 100 Years War, and available at Second Chance last time I looked.
 

owenedwards

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OCS is probably the most comparable in weight to ASL. It has its own very dedicated and intense community, much like ASL - which isn't anywhere near as true of some other even more successful operational systems (e.g. the Simonitch 194x games are very popular and well-loved but no hardcore community).
 

The Purist

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The BCS (Battalion Combat Series) games from The Gamers are also a lot of fun. There are three released so far - Kasserine 43 (Baptism by Fire, smallest and easiest to learn), the 44 Ardennes campaign (Last Blitzkrieg) is massive but fun to play, and Operation Crusader (Blazing Chariots) covering a massive desert battle in Nov/Dec 41.
 
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Robin Reeve

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The BCS (Battalion Combat Series) games from The Gamers are also a lot of fun. There are three released so far - Kasserine 43 (Baptism by Fire) smallest and easiest to learn), the 44 Ardennes campaign (Last Blitzkrieg) is massive but fun to play, and Operation Crusader (Blazing Chariots) covering a massive desert battle in Nov/Dec 41.
What difference between BCS and OCS?
I shy away from OCS because of the heavy logistics rules (I prefer the classic and simple SCS on that aspect) : is the BCS lighter?
 

The Magnus

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Also the business part of my brain kicked in and I wondered how successful MMP was in producing non ASL stuff.

Do you play any of the other MMP products?
a very interesting question, Joe. Is ASL propping all the other games up, or are all the other games propping ASL up? The relative margin of all these products would be extremely interesting to know, but we will never know, will we?🤣😛🤪.

apart from Family Games I only play ASL, no time for anything else this side of retirement...
 

JoeArthur

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Is ASL propping all the other games up, or are all the other games propping ASL up? The relative margin of all these products would be extremely interesting to know, but we will never know, will we?🤣😛🤪.
That was exactly what was going through my mind Magnus...........
 

JoeArthur

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Many thanks for the help everyone.

Ian - I have PM'd you. Maybe you want a break from ASL at the next tourny :)
 

The Purist

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What difference between BCS and OCS?
I shy away from OCS because of the heavy logistics rules (I prefer the classic and simple SCS on that aspect) : is the BCS lighter?
BCS is really good, and the new one has just gone on preorder.
Robin,

In BCS unit HQs must be activated (there is a chance for a second activation) in order for its sub units to move. BCS uses a simplified but very effective supply system. Units must be within a certain range of an established 'divisional train', known as a stream. This train must then trace its path back to a supply source. If a supply train needs to move to stay in range it becomes a ghost train for a turn, which impacts the ability to activate, especially if the unit is not 'Fresh' or has low fatigue. If two divisional trains 'cross the streams' in the forward areas (use the same road), it can affect activation. Formations build up fatigue through supply issues (crossing the stream and ghosting a train), by being mixed together, by moving, fighting, all of which affect activation. If formations get too jumbled up it can cause chaos (supply) and thus bog an attacker down, even bring an attack sector to a stand still, thus the need to keep individual formations moving on their own axis of advance.

Eventually, formations will build up so much fatigue that they cannot properly activate and they will need to rest in order to bring down that fatigue. Even while functional, a unit with higher levels of fatigue may only obtain a 'partial activation' which limits how far a formation's units can move and the effectiveness of its attacks.

BCS does not 'count factors' and then apply the results in odds tables. Instead, attacking and defending units compare combat effectiveness with terrain, type of attack, supporting units and then apply the +/- mods to a table where you hope to destroy strength points and/or force retreats.

BCS is not perfect but the latest rules updates make it a pretty slick game. Its preferable to SCS, which is too basic where supply is concerned. OCS has more accurate supply rules but because both it and SCS use odds ratios for combat results its leads to "factor counting".

Here is a screen shot from Last Blitzkrieg showing the German attack in the south of the Ardennes from Clervaux to Diekirch. You can see how formations are not all mixed up looking to create the perfect attack.

If anyone is interested, I have BbF and would be happy to run through the system with you.

And yes,... the games are on VASSAL.

16377
 
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