Westwall

Kraut

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It strikes me as odd that the germans have to build their Westwall via a TO while the french have their Maginot line from the beginning. If the Westwall had been a hypothetical construction like the northern maginot line I'd understand that but the Westwall was constructed from 1936-1940 and with its ~20.000 bunkers, Dragon Teeth barriers and similar obsacles comparable to the french maginot line. It's true that once the germans started building the atlantic wall they striped most heavy weapons from the Westwall to use them in the atlantic wall, but what if the german player want's to keep his Westwall instead of building the atlantic wall ?

A simple solution could be to simulate the static barriers with nuclear waste icons, they slow down every movement and might be good to simulate the difficulties an enemy army had to overcome these barriers. Let the barb-wire remain as a simulation for the still remaining bunkers.

Than, let the german Westwall forts be there from the start but assign them and the atlantic wall forts the same heavy equipment with no production. Deploy the Atlantic forts as empty shells, only filled with some light rifle squads but no heavy weapons. Than the german player can decide whether he'd wishes to disband his westwall forts to fill up the atlantic forts or not!

Pretty please ?? :)
 

Siberian HEAT

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I don't think the Nuke-u-lar hexes would at this scale. It would hinder both sides equally and over too large an area.

I do like your concept though. At that point in the game it could be a critical deterrent needed by the Germans...
 

Chuck?

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I think there all ready a couple of West Wall forts at the start of the game. Maybe there should be more. However the TO is for extending the wall.
 

Kraut

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the normal westwall should be the forts the axis gets now after choosing the 'build Sigfried Line' TO, we could keep the 'expand Westwall' TO which should strengthen the existing forts and extend the Westwall to the North Sea.

During WW2 the allied had immense respect of the Westwall and the german propaganda presented it as an unpenetratable line. Maybe it was in 1940 but no longer in 1944 because all weapons were braught to the atlantic coast and the bunkers were no longer cared for for 4 years (because they were strategic irrelevant). But what if the the player decides to keep his westwall ? Than the bunkers would be an impressive line in 1944, probably upgraded with some late war anti tank bunkers and obstacles!
 

Kraut

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Here a historical remark about the strenght of the Westwall:

In the battle of the Hürtgenwald (Sep. 1944-Feb.1945) were the germans successfully managed to man and reinforce the Westwall defence one of the bloodiest battles on the West Front errupts. In the end 68.000 soldiers lost their life (55.000 US and 13.000 german) in this battle. And remember that the US losses in the pacific throughout the war were 'only' 50.000 and total 360.000 in Europe and Asia combined. So had the germans succeeded in upgrading and manning their fortifications combined with a mobile reserve (instead of sending them into the Battle of the Bulge) this could have dramatically changed the battle at the west front, might be interestinbg to open this possibility for EA :)
 

Mark Stevens

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The Westwall was never anything like as strong as the Maginot Line, stripped of its artillery or not. We have got the two strongest forts, and a line of fortification hexes representing it at the moment. The TO is to give the German player the option of building an equivalent in the 1930s, at the cost of developing the armoured and motorised formations and blitzkreig tactics represented by the 'Case Yellow' TO.

I'd suggest that the hard fighting along the line in 1944 owed more to the combat capabilities of the German Army, and Allied supply problems, than to the fact that the Westwall was such a formidable barrier.

If you entrench a line of full strength German infantry corps along the line, maybe backed by artillery, it'll still be the devil to cross.
 
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