WestPointer vs Vindex

[CyberRanger]

Well ... damn ... I typed a huge report and the page didn't submit right. So ... slimmed down version.

Germans: south, 1st Pz Army, 19 Pz Div
Soviets: north, Don Reinforcements, Little Saturn

My plan is to use the Don Reinforcements to attack with the Gds Armies in the north. I'll launch Little Saturn when the artillery is in place. Probably around turn 8.

The southern attack was decent. My main goal in the south is force preservation. I plan to let him cross the **** (as if I can prevent it!) so the Don Front units can be used anywhere. I've attached a pic of the south front.

In the pocket, he moved a few units (I think to correct over-stacking) but didn't attack with his artillery. Good ... the longer those German guns stay quiet the better!

Details of my plans later!

Oh ... Airforce. All but 2 units in re-org. 89 friend vs 40 enemy aircraft destroyed per the air briefing.

 

[CyberRanger]

Man .... just ran another quick test to see how soon I can get the Don Front reinforcements to attack in the NW and they didn't show up until turn 8. I hope my luck is better in the real game!

 

[laszlo.nemedi]

That "south surprise" made me to choose the southern deployment (of course MikeJ surprised me, but I hope it is unique on the axis side)...

 

[laszlo.nemedi]

maybe make a second defense line on the **** border

 

[CyberRanger]

Turn 3 finished:

So far, I'm very pleased with the contest. The German southern attack is making progress but nothing spectacular. I'm trying to get the German to move up a small slot in the south towards the pocket so he trips the *** line.

By Sector:

North - I'm very pleased here. The Italians are getting a beating. With the release of more Soviet units on turn 4, I'm going to really start making progress here. I've yet to move the 2nd Gds. They are still resting, picking up supplies, and waiting for me to decide where to commit them. I'm leaning towards going all the way NW and following the breach I'm establishing.

Center - Not much action yet. I'm being launching ML/LA with arty support to harass what he has there. I'm seeing the 19th Pz Div and 1st Pz Army move into that area. I'm not sure if he's planning an attack or if they are to defend against my attack.

South - I'm focusing on force conservation. Some of my units I've divided to slow him down. The rest are trying to make sure they don't get surrounded.

Pocket - I'm pounding the hell of of him here. He has yet to attack with the artillery in the pocket while I'm launching ML/LA attacks followed by a big attack to take some ground. I'm very pleased with the situation. If he doesn't wakeup his artillery soon and start attacking, I'm going to squeeze the pocket quickly.


A few notes ....

1. Someone noted that infantry is dugout much quicker when artillery direct attacks. I tried it ... and you are right! In attacks where just one arty unit was in direct bombardment, the German unit was much more likely to be un-dug.

2. The loss penalty is 4-3 in my FAVOR. Gotta love that at the end of T3.

3. Fire every tube of artillery in every combat round. In most games, I think that will be the deciding factor.

4. I managed three rounds in T3. I think with better focus on the mp's of my direct fire artillery, I can get that to 4.

5. Some of my units you will notice are not dug in. If that is so, they attacked in the last combat round. Otherwise, almost all units are dug in and on max loss setting.

On turn 4, I'll start teasing the Rumanians, continue hitting the Italians, and batter the pocket more. I should get a much better idea of his intentions for 19Pz Div and 1st Army.

 

[laszlo.nemedi]

yeah, seems OK the situation, CO...

 

[CyberRanger]

Quick Update:

• Turn 4 Completed
• Entire Soviet Airforce in reorg when I opened the turn
• Loss penality started at 4-3, ended 6-5 (both in my favor)
• I can see the 27th Pz Div and 1st Army moving primarily to the center area
• 385th and 304th German infantry moving to help in the north
• I feel his attack from the south is fairly under control. He can push me back but he's not making dramatic gains. I've left an opening in my line in case he is careless enough to rush into a *** hex. I'm beginning to move more infantry from the east side of the pocket to the south side to prevent a linkup.

My ATTACKS!

• North ... awesome results! I'm about to breakthrough in a big way on the far north corner. I've split the Italians near the top of the map and I don't think he has troops to seal the break. I moved 2nd Gd directly SW to threaten his line there. I'm not sure if I'm going to really push the attack put it will hold his units in place and make him question where to send any reinforcements. I think turn 5 is going to see me tear this front open.
• Center ... no real action. I hit some targets of opportunity with artillery and flank attacks. He seems to be building up his forces here. I think he is mainly in a defensive poster and centrally locating his troops.
• South ... I can't believe he failed to reposition the Rumanians. The now awakened 28th Army sliced through them, eliminating a number of regiments. If he doesn't divert some troops to help immediately, I'll be marching up to Kotelnikovo in no time. I don't expect that to happen but this will make him take troops that could help his southern attack and use them in the south.
• Pocket ... a bit slower moving than I'd like but making headway. The 21st Army Rifle Corp decided to go into reorg because one regiment retreated. Oh well ... battle with what you have! Anyway, I took about three hexes in the north, two in the NE, two on the south edge, and one on the sw corner. The 30th Rifle Div (65A) is in hex 79,24. That's a problem for him!

I know have 4 vp locations! I'm looking forward to turn 5. No more axis shock and my units awake and in position. Now, if those Don Front reinforcements only arrive too!

A note about my tactics: After reading more discussion, and some comments by MikeJ, I changed my tactics. I got three combat rounds this turn which I think was okay. I used to start my turn with a round of nothing but small ML/LA using small units backed by artillery. However, this turn, in places where I had a lot of strength, I still did limited attacks on min loss but I used every unit I had. My casualties went up some the first round, but the defender often retreated. My next two rounds I did the same. Much more productive!

 

[laszlo.nemedi]

Seems pretty good...

 

[Heinz57]

Your loss ratio looks really good for this stage and you're right about the build up in the center...geeze. He has little hope of relieving Stalingrad -- another who's been trapped into pressing a 50 km front. IMO, that seriously dilutes the attack and increases losses in the process.

This is interesting in comparing 57th PzK South vs. 57th PzK North. With your situation, his front is roughly 500 km. Presently, Axis front is roughly 600 km in my current situation, with potential to narrow it to 550 km if 5th TA is cleaned up.

10 hex difference, unless he tries to widen it further. But essentially, the larger his 57th PzK Bulge, the more diluted his lines will be. Will have to look at this further...

 

[CyberRanger]

I sent my turn 6 back to Vindex on Monday. The game is looking really good for me. Vindex has not been making good use of his artillery in the pocket or in the relief effort. The loss ratio is currently in my favor by 8-6.

In the north, I'm about to totally tear open his flank.

In the center, I'm making good progress and I am only 2 hexes from the pocket supply point. Meanwhile, I got one of his relief units to retreat before combat into a * hex, so the Don Front is now free to move anywhere.

In the south, I mauled the Romanians. They will need immediate assistance.

The deployment of the 1st Pz Army is interesting. The 111th Inf. (from what I can see in the playback) looks to be waiting for my 44th Army in the south. 16th Mot moving to help the Romanians. The 3rd Pz division is attacking on the south bank of the Don near Chir Sta. I haven't seen the 7Pz or 5th SS yet. I'm not sure if they haven't arrived or are staying cloaked. I think the former. Either way, so far the 1st Pz Army is doing a mixture of roles.

Since a picture is worth a thousand words, here are three composite pics from the start of turn 4 to the end of turn 6. The red line is the rough starting point at the beginning of turn 4.

One item the pictures don't show ... the 2nd Gd Army working with the 1 Gds Mech Corp have opened up a four hex hole in the Axis lines three hexes north of Bokovskaya (41,16). The entire Axis front between there and Rossoh (to the NW) is in serious danger of being encircled!

 

[CyberRanger]

end of turn 6 sal

 

[laszlo.nemedi]

Good work!

I think you don't need any advice

 

[Southern Dandy]

The deployment of the 1st Pz Army is interesting. The 111th Inf. (from what I can see in the playback) looks to be waiting for my 44th Army in the south. 16th Mot moving to help the Romanians. The 3rd Pz division is attacking on the south bank of the Don near Chir Sta. I haven't seen the 7Pz or 5th SS yet. I'm not sure if they haven't arrived or are staying cloaked. I think the former. Either way, so far the 1st Pz Army is doing a mixture of roles.

For what it's worth, 7th PzD and 5th SS PzD are usually the last two parts of 1st PzA to arrive on scene. I haven't looked at your latest .SAL yet, nor any of the screenshots (but will shortly), but it seems to be a fairly safe bet that one of those 2 divisions will be heading north to the Rossoh area (or at least to Millerovo- I think that's the city up that way with all the airfields and serves more as less as a hub for the road net in the northern 1/3 of the map for the Axis player), while the other would likely stay near its entry to help out against 44th Army...or, it will be off to help the Rumanians in the south, which would then practically hand you Rostov, cut his supplies south of the Don dramatically after turn 12, and generally accelerate your advances while creating additional problems for him.

Just some guesses...I'll look over your pictures and see if my general impression changes or not. May not post until tomorrow, since it's getting late and I'm just home work about 20 minutes ago....need to grab some dinner and get some sleep!

John

 

[Southern Dandy]

Just looked over your screenshots....some questions and my observations follow:

Regarding the kessel, he's still hoping to break into from the west or southwest. I noticed immediately he's doing everything to hold that line as close to, if not, in the original positions as possible. I don't know for certain if those units you've watched move into the center are still there or not, but if he chooses to drive hard and liberate as a minimum, the HQs (Korps and Armee), he needs to do so soon. In the meantime though, the northern line of the kessel may cease to exist unless he pulls some of those battalions from the SW line up north.

In the north....was your crossing of the Don (that northernmost stretch of the 3 N-S hexes) unopposed? That's tremendous progress! Barring some major misfortune, you'll be in Staroblesk and Voroshilgrad in no time!

Down south...not sure if you've evapped all the Rumanian opposite 28th Army, or if they're just out of sight...but if the answer is the former, there is nothing between 28th Army and Rostov except 111th ID....and the 16th Motorized, apparently. At worst, you could completely cut his remaining forces south of the Don off completely.

I'll look over the .SAL in the morning, I think....time for a nap!

John

 

[Southern Dandy]

Just looked over your .SAL and it more or less confirmed my suspicions. I noted that he now has lots of HQs, mostly divisional in his front along the northern line of the kessel. I'm not sure if this was by design on his part, or because of advances you're making....but that northern line isn't going to exist much longer if he doesn't pull some reinforcements from somewhere.

His entire northern 1/3 of the map is dire trouble. Assuming the infamous Soviet supply woes don't stop you dead for a turn or two, he's going to have major headaches restoring the situation- and that's assuming he has the forces to reestablish something resembling a line.

I noticed that there's a divisional HQ all the way out by Taganrog. In my experience from the other side of the hill, that's not a re-entry point for the Axis (though I could be wrong), and it's not a reinforcement arrival hex either. I'm not sure if the rest of the division is out there or not, but the area bears monitoring on future playbacks.

Based on what I'm seeing, you'll have 44th Army in Rostov in fairly short order once it arrives. He has too many issues to hold everywhere, which means he's going to likely run himself silly trying to do so...which only weakens him further!

Fine work, Tovarich. I nominate you for the Hero of the Soviet Union medallion!

Ivan

 

[CyberRanger]

Regarding the kessel ...I noticed immediately he's doing everything to hold that line as close to, if not, in the original positions as possible. I don't know for certain if those units you've watched move into the center are still there or not, ...

He has moved most of the units from the center of the pocket to help the northern edge. I haven't been pushing as hard on the south edge because I don't have much artillery down there. My focus now will definetly be forcing a battle for the supply point inside the kessel. If that falls, von Paulus will be a prisoner in short order. Since my Don Front units are now free to operate anywhere, I'm going to pull many of my units from the east and west sides of the pocket to the south to halt his linkup effort.

In the north....was your crossing of the Don (that northernmost stretch of the 3 N-S hexes) unopposed? That's tremendous progress! Barring some major misfortune, you'll be in Staroblesk and Voroshilgrad in no time!

He kept the original Italian units in their starting deployments. As I broke through his lines to the south west of those hexes, a few units attacked nw while I had moved enough HQ and engineer units into place to support a massed attack across the upper most river hexes. The reinforcing German infantry was too busy to the south to help. This is the area that now defines the battle. I'm not sure my opponent realizes that yet, but the rest of the map is a side show at this point.

Down south...not sure if you've evapped all the Rumanian opposite 28th Army, or if they're just out of sight...but if the answer is the former, there is nothing between 28th Army and Rostov except 111th ID....and the 16th Motorized, apparently. At worst, you could completely cut his remaining forces south of the Don off completely.

John

Yes, most were evapped after being overrun. The Rumanians that you can see in the final pic are all that remain. They weren't redeployed at all ... making them easy work for a fresh, unhindered 28th Army. I probably won't push the 28th much harder; I'll try to move closer to the rail line that is supplying the relief effort but I'd rather not attack the 111th ID and 16th Motorized without additional support. I think I could quickly become the hunted in that matchup!


Thanks for all the feedback. I'd say my success to date is based on these items:

• The German player did not redeploy in the South or North, although he could have. It's almost like he got so focused on the relief effort he forgot to take care of the rest of the battle.
• I attacked immediately on turn 2 anywhere that I had artillery that could support limited attacks. Especially in the north, I got the 6th Army on the Don river hexes and started pounding with all available artillery. By the time the rest of my units were released on turn 4, he was softened up and ready to crumble.
• The German reinforcements that may have helped hold the north together went to the center.
• My opponent did not attack with his 6th Army artillery on turn 2 (or thereafter). By him not attacking on turn 2 from inside the pocket, I got to redeploy my overstacked hexes and start my attacks with fresh infantry and artillery.

 

[laszlo.nemedi]

You surely earned the hero of SU medal.

This aggressive behavior could really confuse the German side, as he thougth he can attack in the first 5-8 turns, but if you are aggressive he has to choose between attack or defense, but the most player choose attack half-heartly and defense half-heartly which is the worst...

So try to look agressive in the eye of the opponent and he will be confused...

 

[CyberRanger]

I'm still battling!

Greetings Comrades! RL has been slowing me down but my battle against Vindex goes well.

Here is the latest sal file.

Highlights:

1. Turn 9 was my first turn of Little Saturn. I had four combat rounds. The biggest help was around the pocket. I'm really starting to shrink it (it is only 3 hexes wide in most places) and I have taken the three hexes north of his supply point. I expect major gains in the pocket with Stalingrad and his supply point both captured by the end of turn 11.

2. Up to the North, the situation is great. The Axis no longer have a front line, just pockets of units that act as speed bumps.

3. To the south of the pocket, he is still trying to advance northward. I don't see the point for him.

4. On the SE, the German reinforcements have stopped me, as expected. I may take a beating there before I can send help.

5. My BONEHEAD move for this turn ... I forgot to move the 44th Army until only 20% of my turn remained. Oh well, not sure what I'm going to do there. Probably cut east of Rostov and then swing back to try to capture it.

 

[CyberRanger]

Turn 10 Complete

My second turn of Little Saturn was very productive, especially around the pocket. I'd hoped to capture Stalingrad and the supply point at Gumrak - Stalingrad for the psychological impact and Gumrak to put the Axis 6th Army out of supply. Yet, despite getting four combat rounds and lossing almost 300 rifle squads around Gumrak, both held. However, the pocket's life is short and I killed my first Corp HQ unit in the pocket (14 PzK HQ for 1 vp.)

By the end of next turn, unless my re-org problems spread, the pocket will be reduced to 10 hexes or so. Then ... all that Don Front artillery will be free to join the main fray!

The biggest enemy news for the turn was the movement of the 5 SS and 7 Pz divisions from the south-east to the north-west. The Axis n-w front no longer exists so we will be having a big battle when those two divisions and my Guard armies from the n-w collide. The movement of his two divisions out of the south also means my southern flank should survive long enough to get help from the Don Front.

 

[CyberRanger]

Turn 11 Update:

1. The Axis abandon efforts to reach the pocket. Many German units from the S-E seen moving west.

2. Soviet forces are on a rampage in the north-west. The Axis line is totally destroyed. Axis units seen trying to escape south. Soviet forces control three hexes beside Millerovo.

3. Axis movements seem to indicate that the Axis player is preparing a final defensive line behind the Donetz river in an attempt to save Voroshilovgrad.

4. My worst fear is that the Axis player will take all his free reserves in a gamble to destroy my 44th Army and then try to save Voroshilovgrad. But I don't think he's going to attempt that.

5. The pocket is now almost a line. Turn 11 was my last turn of Little Saturn. I received 6 combat rounds. Awesome. I almost took Stalingrad but one German armored battalion refused to budge. After the stiff casualties I endured trying to take Gumrak last turn, I decided to try to isolate it for now. I hope to finish off the pocket within 3 turns.

If I'd only had one more turn of Little Saturn ... I think the pocket would be finished in one turn! Oh ... von Paulus surrendered. I'm not sure why ... maybe counter-battery fire got him.