Weserubung.

[rasmus]

I have a question regarding the invasion of Norway and Denmark.

I DOWed them in september 39. On the first turn I took Copenhagen with a MOTINFDIV and tried to sink the the Norwegian navy infront of Oslo, with airstrikes. I also moved air and airbournes into the airfield in Northern Jutland.
I failed to sink all the norwegian ships and the turn ended without a single german in Norway.
In his turn, the allied player send almost all his planes into Norway along with plenty of reinforcements from Britain.

Next turn I pounded his air in france and managed to put four divisions ashore in kristiansand (two inf and two airbourne).

But to my dismay I observed several norwegian reserve forces popping up all over the map. I now foresee a very long and bloody campaign with me spending several weeks just to put sufficient forces ashore to overwhelm him.

Here come the questions:
1. Is there a way to knock out Norway on the first turn after the DOW?
2. Is the german sea transport not a bit low for this invasion?

 

[Mark Stevens]

I believe that the 'classic' way to knock out Norway (or at least the southern troops and coastal garrisons) is to invade Denmark and send air units to the airfields there while simultaneously moving a German land unit, together with the Kriegsmarine, adjacent to the Norwegian Navy outside Oslo and landing airborne troops next to the capital. During the first part of the combat phase the Norwegian Navy is sunk by naval and air attack, leaving just enough of the move left to launch a combined sea assault and paratroop/airlanding attack on Oslo. If this succeeds - and the Norwegians are fairly weak - their southern forces will surrender shortly afterwards. One counter to this is to send the Anglo-French fleets to patrol the approaches so that the Kriegsmarine can't get there in one turn, but that exposes the Allied fleets to bombing and naval attacks without much air cover, except for weak naval air and the longer-ranged fighters in the UK.

In reality the German capture of Oslo on April 9th was as much the result of surprise and bluff as hard fighting, and once Allied reinforcements arrived there was another month of fighting in the north before the situation in France caused their recall. Not all of the initial German assaults succeeded - Dietl's mountain troops in the far north just avoided being pushed into Sweden and interned, and the Kriegsmarine was temporarily crippled as a surface fleet.

Had the surprise German attack on Oslo failed I think that there would have been months of hard fighting in difficult terrain, with the Allies' naval superiority being tested against German airpower.

I have to say that I think that the simulation of the Norwegian Campaign is one of the half-way realistic things in EA: there're a lot more things that don't work so well.

 

[rasmus]

Well that explains my predicament. My opponent and I agreed on a 18 hex limit for airdrops, leaving Norway safe on the first turn of the attack. I now find myself fighting without supply, and with the entire british fighter force in Norway.

I beleive this is what is called a great learning experience.

 

[Mantis]

I don't do the direct amphibious invasion on Oslo any longer. I begin just as Mark states, but after clearing the navy, I land in the empty port to the west of Oslo, and then nail the capital from there. If you do fail, your infantry korps will still exist when you next receive a turn.

 

[rasmus]

So my first mistake was failing to kill off the norwegian navy.
How do you land a Korps? I find that I only have sealift for a few divisions.

 

[Siberian HEAT]

I do Norway when I attack Poland.

Step 0. Move two of the 3500 ton infantry corps up to a northern port, usually on turn 1 or 2.
Step I. On turn 3 sealift that corps, plus a couple HQ units up adjacent to the Nord navy. Also move the KM unit there. Wait for next turn.
Step II. On turn 4 (after the declaration of war) you just land those units on the southern shore by dis-embarking them there. Do the HQ units first so that you can move them north to Oslo, providing a safe ZOC past the Nord navy. This leaves 4 of 8 MP's left on your infantry, which is usually able to take Norway after a round or two of combat.
Step III. At the same time, secure the Denmark airfields, move your airforce up. Move your airborne units up if you have an arbitrary limit on them...so they are ready for next turn.
Step IV. ONce your units debark you can attack the Nord navy in the bay, using whatever air assets you have around. If successful you can debark another corp which can then usually push itself into the port to the west of Oslo.

At the very most, this makes a two turn invasion, but usually only takes 1. If you airdrop into the airfield east of Oslo, park a few fighters there on air superiority and they should be able to fight off any stray bombers that might come looking for your fleet. The RN might try to engage near Oslo, but without adequate fighter cover they are in for a bloody battle.

Note that you MUST do this on the same turn you declare war on Poland, because for that one turn the allies are not at war with you, and you have freedom to move units at sea. YOu will never have such a grand opportunity!

 

[jlbetin]

I do Norway when I attack Poland.

Note that you MUST do this on the same turn you declare war on Poland, because for that one turn the allies are not at war with you, and you have freedom to move units at sea. YOu will never have such a grand opportunity!

viele danke SSAH, Ah, I'm pleased to have take my time, I've learned a lot here
1st turn in few hours

Der WanderOKH

 

[rasmus]

I do Norway when I attack Poland.

Step 0. Move two of the 3500 ton infantry corps up to a northern port, usually on turn 1 or 2.
Step I. On turn 3 sealift that corps, plus a couple HQ units up adjacent to the Nord navy. Also move the KM unit there. Wait for next turn.
Step II. On turn 4 (after the declaration of war) you just land those units on the southern shore by dis-embarking them there. Do the HQ units first so that you can move them north to Oslo, providing a safe ZOC past the Nord navy. This leaves 4 of 8 MP's left on your infantry, which is usually able to take Norway after a round or two of combat.
Step III. At the same time, secure the Denmark airfields, move your airforce up. Move your airborne units up if you have an arbitrary limit on them...so they are ready for next turn.
Step IV. ONce your units debark you can attack the Nord navy in the bay, using whatever air assets you have around. If successful you can debark another corp which can then usually push itself into the port to the west of Oslo.

At the very most, this makes a two turn invasion, but usually only takes 1. If you airdrop into the airfield east of Oslo, park a few fighters there on air superiority and they should be able to fight off any stray bombers that might come looking for your fleet. The RN might try to engage near Oslo, but without adequate fighter cover they are in for a bloody battle.

Note that you MUST do this on the same turn you declare war on Poland, because for that one turn the allies are not at war with you, and you have freedom to move units at sea. YOu will never have such a grand opportunity!

Where was this excellent recipe for succes when I needed it two weeks ago?

 

[Siberian HEAT]

viele danke SSAH, Ah, I'm pleased to have take my time, I've learned a lot here
1st turn in few hours

Der WanderOKH

Ackkk! JL, what are you doing here? You weren't supposed to find out about this thread until AFTER you invaded Poland.

Lest anyone think this strategy takes the edge off the Norway campain, don't forget this is the easy part. You still have to take the rest of the country. While you will have Oslo, the Allies will have plenty of time to load up Narkvik and Trondhiem before you are done mopping up down south.

However, there is no reason the German player should have to wallow in front of the port of Oslo and get chewed up when there is a perfectly good shoreline where they could simply walk into town. :cheeky:

 

[jlbetin]

Where was this excellent recipe for succes when I needed it two weeks ago?

Sleeping in Brian's head. Hopefully it awakes on the right time for me

Der WanderSpy

 

[rasmus]

Sleeping in Brian's head. Hopefully it awakes on the right time for me

Der WanderSpy

LOL.
If hes got any more brewing in there, now the time to share. :halo:

 

[Siberian HEAT]

I just noticed JL's signature. I feel honored.

As for other ideas brewing...I'm not sure that I have anything of real value that hasn't been posted somewhere. I can't take credit for that idea anyway, I'm pretty sure Jamiam showed me that one a long time ago when he and I played an older version of EA.

Poland should take you 2 weeks to conquer, and you could almost do it without attacking a single hex except Warsaw. YOu shouldn't waste a lot of units in that theatre.

I think my record for reaching Paris is capturing it on the 3rd week of the assault. Key is to use the shock to your greatest benefit...

After that...its anyone's game.

 

[Mantis]

So my first mistake was failing to kill off the norwegian navy.
How do you land a Korps? I find that I only have sealift for a few divisions.

All units from the German OOB3 will make sealift for the first so many turns.

 

[Mantis]

I do Norway when I attack Poland.

Step II. On turn 4 (after the declaration of war) you just land those units on the southern shore by dis-embarking them there.

CHEATER!

 

[Mantis]

Sleeping in Brian's head. Hopefully it awakes on the right time for me

Der WanderSpy

JL, feel free to ping me at your :devious: leisure. I'll show you every trick in the book...

 

[Siberian HEAT]

CHEATER!

Yes, it is worth noting that SOME people don't use this method for any of their games, because some misguided person convinced them that amphibious assaults must ALWAYS aim for a port (just like Anzio, D-Day, Husky, etc. were all ports!). I would argue that an amphibious assault should NEVER land at a port simply because those were the most heavily defended parts of any country. You should put your troops where the enemy is not - although you are constantly in danger of having no supply if you fail to take a port quickly.

Anyhoo, best to ask your opponent if they agree to non-port sea landings. If they say no, be sure to give them some grief about it. :laugh:

 

[jlbetin]

Yes, it is worth noting that SOME people don't use this method for any of their games, because some misguided person convinced them that amphibious assaults must ALWAYS aim for a port (just like Anzio, D-Day, Husky, etc. were all ports!). I would argue that an amphibious assault should NEVER land at a port simply because those were the most heavily defended parts of any country. You should put your troops where the enemy is not - although you are constantly in danger of having no supply if you fail to take a port quickly.

Anyhoo, best to ask your opponent if they agree to non-port sea landings. If they say no, be sure to give them some grief about it. :laugh:

I don't agreeeuhh I don't agreeuuuh nananère,

You can't land like this, If you do it I will tell it to the Mantis policeman he will put you in Jail and I will tell the ACG and WHQ people that you are cheating.

But but but, may be your capture of Foret de Cerisy was a cheating, give me back my victory, cheater

Shane shane Sib has stolen my victory

Doctor diagnostic :Very bad digestion of the 2win game, something stay in middle of his stomach. Looking at Xray radio it seems it is a reco unit strange noooo !!!

Der WanderNooooooooooIcan'tStandIt:angry:

 

[rasmus]

Yes, it is worth noting that SOME people don't use this method for any of their games, because some misguided person convinced them that amphibious assaults must ALWAYS aim for a port (just like Anzio, D-Day, Husky, etc. were all ports!). I would argue that an amphibious assault should NEVER land at a port simply because those were the most heavily defended parts of any country. You should put your troops where the enemy is not - although you are constantly in danger of having no supply if you fail to take a port quickly.

Anyhoo, best to ask your opponent if they agree to non-port sea landings. If they say no, be sure to give them some grief about it. :laugh:

The one problem I have is that taking any norwegian ports but Oslo will still leave me unsupplied.

 

[dannybou]

I actually used this tactic on a EA game and it worked perfectly. I used three airborne drops behind Oslo, capturing the airfield and then amphibed Oslo using a German Corps, the KM and those same three airborne units. Took it the first combat round.

 

[rasmus]

I actually used this tactic on a EA game and it worked perfectly. I used three airborne drops behind Oslo, capturing the airfield and then amphibed Oslo using a German Corps, the KM and those same three airborne units. Took it the first combat round.

Only works if the norwegian navy is gone.