Wasps, Badgers, and other Carriers

Discussion in 'ASL Rules & Errata' started by Binchois, Mar 20, 2017.

  1. Binchois

    Binchois Too many words... Silver Supporting Member

    838
    Apr 11, 2016
    Michigan
    The definition of "carrier" seems clear in the RB, but becomes confusing when faced with the great variety of "carriers," "armored personnel carriers," and many variants or hybrids found in the complete British and Commonwealth armor listings.

    Presumably, many of these vehicles, like the Badger and Ram Kangaroo, are treated as OT AFV and are not like carriers at all. I base this upon the specifics of the vehicle notes and especially as they do not receive notes U or V:

    U See D6.8-.84 for the basic rules pertaining to Carriers. If this Carrier has sD/Towing capability, it is not useable prior to 1944 - as signified by the superscript(s) "4+". If this Carrier is to start a DYO scenario as a towing vehicle, an Infantry (i.e.,2-2-8) crew may be purchased for it in lieu of its Inherent HS; this is accomplished by adding two points in the "Opt.BPV" column of the DYO Roster's "Vehicle" section. The MF expenditures given in C10.11 and C10.12 for (un)hooking a Gun apply unchanged if the MMC performing that action is simultaneously (un)loading from/into this Carrier. The use of "A", "B" and "C" in the piece names are our own designations, given to help differentiate between similar models.

    V Of the special rules for Carriers, only D6.82 - .83 and H1.43 apply to IP Carriers (and their Inherent HS/crew); for all other purposes they are considered non-Carrier wheeled OT AFV. However, this vehicle may retain any unpossessed SW aboard it (D6.4).​

    U or V are given as notes to, I think, all "true" British Carriers. As such, it seems like both the Badger and the Ram Kangaroo are not treated as carriers. Thus they can be BU and can fire (their BMG and FT) that way.

    Is this true? And am I missing some other, more obvious, signal as to what vehicles actually are "carriers"? [I see that most of them are actually called "Carrier" under the type and not APC...exception: Wasp]

    And finally, assuming that the Badger and Ram Kangaroo are not treated as Carriers, then I assume that they cannot form FG or perform other activities common to halftracks (though the Ram Kangaroo can transport personnel). Also true?

    ...and thus there is no 2-4-8 HS in disguise as the vehicle's crew riding around in these two vehicles.
     
  2. klasmalmstrom

    klasmalmstrom Well-Known Member

    Feb 26, 2003
    Sweden
    I think the Vehicle Notes (e.g., British MAVN U) has to spell it out - just having "Carrier" in the vehicle name or type is not enough.
     
  3. jrv

    jrv Vare, legiones redde!

    May 25, 2005
    Teutoburger Wald
    Per chapter D footnote 8 Carriers as covered in D6.8ff is meant to include Universal, Loyd and Bren Carriers only. There is nothing in D6.8 that actually says which vehicles are carriers; the rules only say that if a vehicle is a carrier, special rules apply. British MAVN U is the only way I know that has vehicles apply D6.8ff apply. There are lots of other units that are APCs in their type (e.g. LVTs), but they do not have a note that invokes D6.8ff. Ram Kangaroos and Badgers are APC but do not invoke D6.8ff.

    JR
     
  4. Binchois

    Binchois Too many words... Silver Supporting Member

    838
    Apr 11, 2016
    Michigan
    Great - Thank you!
     
  5. Binchois

    Binchois Too many words... Silver Supporting Member

    838
    Apr 11, 2016
    Michigan
    Just an additional comment. D6.8 really should state that "carrier" rules are only brought into play when Vehicle Notes (or SSR) call for them.

    I am glad that I had this question correct afterall, but it does take some piecing together. If a main-body rule section is devoted to something, it should state clearly - in that section - exactly when those rules are applicable!
     
  6. Swiftandsure

    Swiftandsure Robin Reeve Silver Supporting Member

    Jul 26, 2003
    St-L├ęgier
    NRBH, but I would guess that the chapter H vehicle listing indicates what vehicles are carriers.
     

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