War In Peace ASL Post WWII

kcdusk

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On the Vftt sites there is a document called War In Peace, by Peter Phillips.

It details infantry for ASL in a post WWII world.

Anyone else read it?

Anyone know if he ever got around to doing Vehicles for it?

Does Pete visit these forums?
 

paulkenny

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well there are some post ww2 HASL mods ala Jeruselem and Viet Nam.
 

Gen. blunder

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kcdusk said:
On the Vftt sites there is a document called War In Peace, by Peter Phillips.

It details infantry for ASL in a post WWII world.

Anyone else read it?

Anyone know if he ever got around to doing Vehicles for it?

Yes i read it, and i think the infantry fire power of a squad equipped with assault rifles is largely underrated .
The basis of the reasoning is that the SS 658 counters were equipped with Sturmgewehr 44 the so called ancestor of the AK 47 so a 10 man squad equipped with ak 47 should have a similar firepower.
I object to that .A squad with ten men only equipped with assault rifles has probably a fire power of 6 or 7 but what about the squads inherent LMG or if we want to use more modern terms what about the squads SAW for US soldiers or Gimpys for UK squads.
It seems that a Vietnam era US squads had 2 M60' s LMG.
So if we give 2 FP to a M60 a Vietnam era us squad should have a fire power of something like 11 or 12.




and no i don't think he ever did vehicles.

There's a Korea project for ASL (Fire and ice) and some german guys Frank Meier has been working on a Vietnam war ASL for more than 4 years .
i really really don't pay attention about the so called post WWII ASL. I think basically it will never exist probably some Korea module or Indochina war module but that's all.
Even Mark Walker that stafted with a Vietnam module with his game lock 'n' load is looking for a publisher for his Falkland war module.It seems modern warfare is not very popular among wargamers and wargame designers.
 

A/CSM Bird

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General Disaster said:
It seems modern warfare is not very popular among wargamers and wargame designers.
Which is a shame actually. There is so much potential for ASL combat; post WWII.
Indochina, Korea, Arab-Israeli '48-'56 are do-able with only a few extra counter sheets to account for up-dated WWII vehicles for Korea and the Sinai in '56 and maps of course, the rest could be pulled right out of the existing countermix.

Given the voracious appetite ASLers have for anything ASL don't you think it's a matter of 'if you design it they will pay/play' ?

Then again we'll all be very old men by the time the publishers got around to the Falklands anyway :whist:
 

da priest

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A/CSM Bird said:
...Given the voracious appetite ASLers have for anything ASL don't you think it's a matter of 'if you design it they will pay/play' ?...
Chuckle..subtle use of the ASL "/"...nope you lose..:devil:

Most ASLers WILL buy just about everything put out by MMP for the system.:dead:

However, they will only PLAY what appeals to them. SASL sold well, but not as well as the base modules and CGs(see RB), DASL sold fairly well but again nowhere as well as the base modules and CGs(see RB).

A very small group of ASLers are firmly committed to the DASL/SASL stuff...but in ASL-land..they just aren't played with the frequency of WW2 tourney size scenarios.
:smoke:

I expect the same result from MASL(with the POSSIBLE exception of Korea), as happened to DASL/SASL.:alien:

In simpler terms: Isn't that cute, now let's go play some Real ASL.:halo:
 

WaterRabbit

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A/CSM Bird said:
Which is a shame actually. There is so much potential for ASL combat; post WWII.
Indochina, Korea, Arab-Israeli '48-'56 are do-able with only a few extra counter sheets to account for up-dated WWII vehicles for Korea and the Sinai in '56 and maps of course, the rest could be pulled right out of the existing countermix.

Given the voracious appetite ASLers have for anything ASL don't you think it's a matter of 'if you design it they will pay/play' ?

Then again we'll all be very old men by the time the publishers got around to the Falklands anyway :whist:
Also most of these actions have been done by TPP.
 

A/CSM Bird

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da priest said:
Chuckle..subtle use of the ASL "/"...nope you lose..:devil:

Most ASLers WILL buy just about everything put out by MMP for the system.:dead:

However, they will only PLAY what appeals to them. SASL sold well, but not as well as the base modules and CGs(see RB), DASL sold fairly well but again nowhere as well as the base modules and CGs(see RB).

A very small group of ASLers are firmly committed to the DASL/SASL stuff...but in ASL-land..they just aren't played with the frequency of WW2 tourney size scenarios.
:smoke:

I expect the same result from MASL(with the POSSIBLE exception of Korea), as happened to DASL/SASL.:alien:

In simpler terms: Isn't that cute, now let's go play some Real ASL.:halo:

If an 'official' Korea module did well in both the pay and play side that could open a breach for further advances into MASL.

I agree on the niche aspect of DASL, our ASL group had one DASL die hard who was so enamoured of deluxe that's all he would play, Gureyev's HQ anyone? Again...!!! :nuts:

'Real ASL' yeah, I hear ya gimme a monster, 6 board, East Front slug fest any day, but I remember the time I used to play AH's Arab-Israeli Wars which got me interested in the whole mid-east conflict, coincidentially it was AIW that we stopped playing to start playing SL in '77. :cheeky:

I guess the argument could be that not only are you straying too far from WWII you are heading into the desert to do it! Is that two strikes? :eek:
 

A/CSM Bird

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WaterRabbit said:
Also most of these actions have been done by TPP.
"Jerusalem" by CH yes. I've heard of the Korea project called 'Fire and Ice' that's yet to see the light of day.

Dienbienphu, somebody in Europe is working on that yes? but not published.

Sinai '56? I've not heard of, have you? :confused:

I'm thinking more along the lines of official MMP sanctioned products, that whole stamp of approval, blessed by Pope Perry kind of thing. :halo:

The likelyhood of any of these actually coming to fuition via MMP is, dare I venture to suggest :cool: , extremely remote at this time, if ever. But they all have potential, that's my argument.
 

Kevin Kenneally

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A/CSM Bird said:
If an 'official' Korea module did well in both the pay and play side that could open a breach for further advances into MASL.

I agree on the niche aspect of DASL, our ASL group had one DASL die hard who was so enamoured of deluxe that's all he would play, Gureyev's HQ anyone? Again...!!! :nuts:

'Real ASL' yeah, I hear ya gimme a monster, 6 board, East Front slug fest any day, but I remember the time I used to play AH's Arab-Israeli Wars which got me interested in the whole mid-east conflict, coincidentially it was AIW that we stopped playing to start playing SL in '77. :cheeky:

I guess the argument could be that not only are you straying too far from WWII you are heading into the desert to do it! Is that two strikes? :eek:
A Korea module could use:
Same AFVs as are already in the system. Only addition might be one for the Brits (Centurion) and two for the US (M46 & SP AAA vehicles).

New Bazooka counter for the 3.5" Bazooka rushed to the theater during August 1950.

Chinese Communist Forces counters.

SK Army counters.

And maybe some others that might NOT already be in the counter mix already.
 

Kevin Kenneally

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A/CSM Bird said:
"
I'm thinking more along the lines of official MMP sanctioned products, that whole stamp of approval, blessed by Pope Perry kind of thing.
Bill,

Perry is "King".... What "Perry sez" rules the ASL kingdom and no MAN nor BEAST may change what is 'sez'd'.
 

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A/CSM Bird said:
"Jerusalem" by CH yes. I've heard of the Korea project called 'Fire and Ice' that's yet to see the light of day.

Dienbienphu, somebody in Europe is working on that yes? but not published.

Sinai '56? I've not heard of, have you? :confused:

I'm thinking more along the lines of official MMP sanctioned products, that whole stamp of approval, blessed by Pope Perry kind of thing. :halo:

The likelyhood of any of these actually coming to fuition via MMP is, dare I venture to suggest :cool: , extremely remote at this time, if ever. But they all have potential, that's my argument.
Dien Bien Phu (Critical Hit)
Genesis '48 (Critical Hit)
Korea is in the works and has sceanrio representation from Paddition Bears as well.

Sinai '56 can't see how that would be interesting game fodder.
 

BobO

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WaterRabbit said:
Dien Bien Phu (Critical Hit)
Genesis '48 (Critical Hit)
Korea is in the works and has sceanrio representation from Paddition Bears as well.

Sinai '56 can't see how that would be interesting game fodder.

Genesis '48 has a few Sinai 56 scenarios in it. A couple more appeared in CH magazine. For scenario purposes, the 56 war is pretty much tapped out.
 

JRKrejsa

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I think the post WWII stuff would be interesting. If they don't sell all that many copies, oh well, those that have will enjoy...

I'm inclined to agree with General Disaster about the firepower. 12-4-7, 11-5-8 squads anyone? But, I think its important to remember, the 6-5-8 SS squad is a composite, not all, or even most 44-45 SS squads had all their riflemen equiped with StG-44's and all three MG-42s. Those few that did would be better depicted in the game as 8-3-8s with a 3-8 LMG.

I like the way Pete handles the inherent grenade launchers, and other new toys.
 
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A/CSM Bird said:
Which is a shame actually. There is so much potential for ASL combat; post WWII.
Indochina, Korea, Arab-Israeli '48-'56 are do-able with only a few extra counter sheets to account for up-dated WWII vehicles for Korea and the Sinai in '56 and maps of course, the rest could be pulled right out of the existing countermix.

Given the voracious appetite ASLers have for anything ASL don't you think it's a matter of 'if you design it they will pay/play' ?

Then again we'll all be very old men by the time the publishers got around to the Falklands anyway :whist:

WWII era ASL would make for good stuff (Korea, Early AI wars). We're more or less using the same counters with only a few updated SWs and vehicles, so we're not obscoleting & adding a bunch of new rules.

Modern ASL wouldn't make for balanced & fun situations, since the unit types are so lop-sided. Iraq is a good example, M1 tanks vs T72/82 tanks are roughly equivalent to Tiger IIs vs T26, and who would want to play a scenario like that? Not I. As someone pointed out earlier, modern squads have much more firepower than their WWII era counterparts. Scenarios with squads sporting 9-12 fp vs guerilla squads with 4-5 fp don't appeal to me for the exact same reason mentioned above. We would need to create a completely alternate countermix to cover MASL, squads & SWs as well as vehicles.

Sure, there are exceptions. Vietnam ambushes with HIP NVA squads and no vehicles & air support in dense jungle/PTO type terrain would probably make for some exciting & well-balanced scenarios.

Outside of the point mentioned above Modern ASL would need to add a slew of new rules: Helicopters, ATGMs, Wire guided missiles (TOW), Laser-missiles, night-vision equipment, smart bombs, new AA rules & counters .... The rules are long enough & adding 50 pages of new rules to cover these things wouldn't add anything substantial to the game IMO. I think MASL would best be served by creating a totally different game (seperate from ASL).
 

Mike Murphy

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Modern ASL

MASL has been tried in the past; think back to MBT and later IDF. I only bought and played MBT and wasn't too impressed. As I recall, MBT was more slanted toward the hardware of combat, not personnel or morale. I didn't keep this one and had no interest in IDF when it came out. From the lack of any further development of this system, I'd have to say that this one simply didn't excite too many people.

I'll stick with ASL and WWII. I may get into SCW and/or Korea later, but those two conflicts are at the limit of what I would expect ASL to model.

YMMV

Mike
 

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Corporal Kindel said:
. I think MASL would best be served by creating a totally different game (seperate from ASL).
You may be right but it seems no publisher except desktop games companies seems to be interested in a modern tactical warfare .To bad .Don't wargamers get tired of playing the same old battles (Bulge, Waterloo, etc....).
 

kcdusk

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I think MASL would be great.

ASL are already a fantastic, the best, rule set.

Update Infantry counters, yes, they might have more firepower. That would mean you'd have to be careful where you put them because they could be mown down pretty quickly. Hmm, that would be challenging.

Or you could have victory conditions that are unbalanced, ie American forces to win have to hold victory hex K while not loosing more than 1 unit per 5 iraqui killed.

TOWS and other missles would work under existing rules i think.

Night vision goggles etc would be good. Perhaps add an extra 3 pages or so to the current night rules to reflect goggles or other NV devices. I dont think it would be too hard.

Yeah, tanks might be unbalanced, but again, USA tanks have to cross the board. In 4 turns or some other "fast" timeline.

Battles dont have to be balanced to be fun. I think playing a side well when the odds are stacked against you can be very rewarding. German 8-3-8 SS v 2-4-7 Russian squads isnt exactly balanced.
 

kcdusk

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USA squad approachs the house, with an "?" counter in it. Squad tries to enter the wooden building but is rebuffed by withering fire, broken, killed by a storm of bullets.

2 squads are now known to be holding the house.

US squads respond with LMG+MMG's, inherent GL's are used on the hex, errrr, house before another two US squads storm in for HtH. Room clearing in the modern world can be a bitch, a deadly bitch.

The ASL rules are great. Modern times might create some "super" infantry counters and maybe some scenarios might be lopsided (but i think that can be overcome).

Bottom line for me? ASL rules are the best around. Updated infantry, SW and vehicles would be reasonably easy and allow the best rule set in the business to build on its already considerable success and allow Wargamers to play out modern encounters. WWII is fantastic, but having access to other theatres and times would just be gravy.
 
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