Wall advantage - quick help please

[nathan brown]

After playing for years...I found a rule the other day and tried a 'pluck' as we call it around Hull Down to turn a hit into a miss...but I feel guilty that I got it wrong and anyway I need to clarify for my playing group going forward.

Somewhere in dem rules D4.x??? (NRBH - work you know!!) there is is a concept where if you are hull down you can claim either hull down or the +2 tem vs direct fire (example: AP shots trying to kill my AFV.

At what point does this work? - do you get the best of both worlds? - ie wait for the shot and then decide based on whether it turns hit into miss

or

Before the shot I chose the option

What about multiple shots - do you chose before each shot from that enemy unit - or do you chose once

what about if a different unit fires at you?- does a previous choice lock you in

(Please refrain from rubbing in us missing this simple issue - if indeed we have - but as comment assuming I got the concept right - its going to slow the game down a little when being fired on unless you get best of both worlds)

 

[Fort]

After playing for years...I found a rule the other day and tried a 'pluck' as we call it around Hull Down to turn a hit into a miss...but I feel guilty that I got it wrong and anyway I need to clarify for my playing group going forward.

Somewhere in dem rules D4.x??? (NRBH - work you know!!) there is is a concept where if you are hull down you can claim either hull down or the +2 tem vs direct fire (example: AP shots trying to kill my AFV.

At what point does this work? - do you get the best of both worlds? - ie wait for the shot and then decide based on whether it turns hit into miss

or

Before the shot I chose the option

What about multiple shots - do you chose before each shot from that enemy unit - or do you chose once

what about if a different unit fires at you?- does a previous choice lock you in

(Please refrain from rubbing in us missing this simple issue - if indeed we have - but as comment assuming I got the concept right - its going to slow the game down a little when being fired on unless you get best of both worlds)

B9.36-In the case of Direct fire, you can take the in-hex TEM or the HD for the wall, the wall TEM never applies as per case Q it only gives a vehicle HD status.
And you must claim it before the DR is made.

 

[TMike]

B9.36 ... ... ... However, if also able to claim in-hex TEM (9.31), the player may choose in-hex TEM instead of HD benefits (D4.2) ~after~ the attack declaration, but ~before~ the attack DR is made. If attacked by non-ordnance, the vehicle (but not its PRC) receives the wall TEM (or in-hex TEM if no wall-advantage).
--Avalon Hill RB

So it sounds like after the attack is announced, and if you have in-hex TEM, then you can decide if you want the +2 OR be hull-down. But you have to decide before the to-hit roll is made.

It also sounds to me like if you have no in-hex TEM, you must take the hull-down status.

 

[SamB]

The new (version 2) wall advantage rules make it clear that you have to claim wall advantage BEFORE the shot is declared. In fact, there are only a few times when you can claim Wall Advantage (and thus, get hull down). When you enter the hex, during the rally phase, when an adjacent enemy loses wall advantage, etc.... I'm NRBH, so I can't quote them all.

If you have now in-hex TEM, then you MUST claim wall advantage. OTOH, I have no idea why you would NOT what wall advantage for your vehicle.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

The new (version 2) wall advantage rules make it clear that you have to claim wall advantage BEFORE the shot is declared. In fact, there are only a few times when you can claim Wall Advantage (and thus, get hull down). When you enter the hex, during the rally phase, when an adjacent enemy loses wall advantage, etc.... I'm NRBH, so I can't quote them all.

If you have now in-hex TEM, then you MUST claim wall advantage. OTOH, I have no idea why you would NOT what wall advantage for your vehicle.

A vehicle that is eligble to receive an in-hex TEM of >= 1 cannot claim WA.

B9.32:
"A unit may claim WA over a same level wall/hedge hexside if it is an armed, unbroken ground level unit which is not: a vehicle eligible to receive in-hex TEM of ≥ 1 [EXC: Height Advantage (10.31)/Cactus Patch (14.7)/Olive Grove (14.8)],..."

So a vehicle inside a building behind a Wall cannot claim WA over that wall.
If attacked by ordnande from a non-adjacent attacker, it can claim Hull Down due to the wall or claim the building TEM.

 

[Fred Ingram]

A vehicle that is eligble to receive an in-hex TEM of >= 1 cannot claim WA.

B9.32:
"A unit may claim WA over a same level wall/hedge hexside if it is an armed, unbroken ground level unit which is not: a vehicle eligible to receive in-hex TEM of ≥ 1 [EXC: Height Advantage (10.31)/Cactus Patch (14.7)/Olive Grove (14.8)],..."

So a vehicle inside a building behind a Wall cannot claim WA over that wall.
If attacked by ordnande from a non-adjacent attacker, it can claim Hull Down due to the wall or claim the building TEM.

This is the rules section that recently pissed of my steady gaming partner such that he will not play bocage any more

But, now I am confused, if you are behind bocage in a buidling (of course a vehicle), then you can NEVER have LOS beyond adjacent hex accross the bocage hexside ????

 

[pward]

This is the rules section that recently pissed of my steady gaming partner such that he will not play bocage any more

But, now I am confused, if you are behind bocage in a building (of course a vehicle), then you can NEVER have LOS beyond adjacent hex across the bocage hexside ????

Based on the bits quoted above, no. If you want to see past the bocage, get out of the woods/building/<whatever it is giving you TEM> and into bypass.

 

[nathan brown]

Re: Wall advantage - quick help please - new information

Just to re-ask now I have re-read the rules and the clause is D4.2 and D4.21 so can anyone comment in light of those. They seem to give the option of either +2 or HD, but also read a little counter-intuitively (surprise its ASL!) so can anyone please have a look at them and see if ther is any 'selection between HD or Wall +2) I am not talking about situations with other TEM in hex.

TO answer one of the posters In some cases +2 would be better than HD because it makes the chance of a hit impossible rathat than HD which makes it unlikely

Anyway hoping someone can understand the straws I am clutching at and assist..

Nathan

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Re: Wall advantage - quick help please - new information

Just to re-ask now I have re-read the rules and the clause is D4.2 and D4.21 so can anyone comment in light of those. They seem to give the option of either +2 or HD, but also read a little counter-intuitively (surprise its ASL!) so can anyone please have a look at them and see if ther is any 'selection between HD or Wall +2) I am not talking about situations with other TEM in hex.

TO answer one of the posters In some cases +2 would be better than HD because it makes the chance of a hit impossible rathat than HD which makes it unlikely

Anyway hoping someone can understand the straws I am clutching at and assist..

Nathan

If you are behind a Wall and there is no in-hex TEM you are Hull Down - you can't choose the +2 TEM of the Wall itself.

Note the errata to D4.2 that came in Journal 6:

D4.2:
"A HD target may not also claim a Case Q TH DRM but it may claim an in-hex Case Q TH DRM in lieu of HD status."

The red part used to read: "may claim a"