Walking Down a Path in the Woods.

Tim Niesen

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2016
Messages
1,209
Reaction score
146
Country
llUnited States
An infanty unit walks down a path in the woods. Does the unit as a target get attacked as if in open ground? Does the unit get the TEM of the woods automatically or does it depend upon whether the firer sees down the path directly? In our current game, or at least before we back it up due to error, there would have been a straight path created by a tank. Would an infantry unit be able to fire directly down that path as if it was woods/roads series of hexes? Tim
 

Honosbinda

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Messages
954
Reaction score
295
Location
Eastbourne Sussex UK
Country
ll
A path is never a road and you can't trace LOS along the path. A tank does not create a path, it creates a trailbreak, B13.241. It's not OG but there is a special -1 DRM, read the whole rule for details....
 

Tim Niesen

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2016
Messages
1,209
Reaction score
146
Country
llUnited States
Okay. Thanks. Will have Don go to your rules citation. Tim
 

Tim Niesen

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2016
Messages
1,209
Reaction score
146
Country
llUnited States
I spoke with Don by telephone and he was already aware of the trailbreak rule. Although this campaign game was ambitious, we have been challenged to learn the more esoteric rules. Most of this stuff I never use in the standard ASL scenarios that I am used to playing with my friend Steve. Tim
 

Honosbinda

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Messages
954
Reaction score
295
Location
Eastbourne Sussex UK
Country
ll
Well done for taking on an ambitious project! No better way to really sink your teeth into the game and learn the nuances. I should have mentioned that a TB does not affect LOS, the woods still blocks normally and you can't trace LOS down the TB as if it were a road. Anyway, enjoy
 

Tim Niesen

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2016
Messages
1,209
Reaction score
146
Country
llUnited States
Part of it was my surprise when Col. Smith not only decided to take a walk in the woods with his tanks bur also decided to push forward a platoon of 45L Guns. The latter tactic has proved effective so far. Tim
 

Tim Niesen

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2016
Messages
1,209
Reaction score
146
Country
llUnited States
How does a trailbreak differ from a path in the woods. I assume that it not clear terrain for movement for infantry in the woods like that of a path. That it simply reduces the bogging calculations for tanks, etc. Tim
 

jrv

Forum Guru
Joined
May 25, 2005
Messages
21,998
Reaction score
6,206
Location
Teutoburger Wald
Country
llIceland
A path is only usable by infantry, and it only reduces the cost to enter the hex to one MF. For most other purposes it does not exist.

JR
 

Tim Niesen

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2016
Messages
1,209
Reaction score
146
Country
llUnited States
Is moving on a Path at one MP considered open ground? Is the TEM of the woods or jungle considered? Tim
 

jrv

Forum Guru
Joined
May 25, 2005
Messages
21,998
Reaction score
6,206
Location
Teutoburger Wald
Country
llIceland
Is moving on a Path at one MP considered open ground? Is the TEM of the woods or jungle considered? Tim
It is not open ground. A path just changes the COT of the terrain if a unit crosses a path hexside. See B13.6.

JR
 

Brian W

Elder Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
7,216
Reaction score
1,024
Location
USA
Country
llUnited States
A path is only usable by infantry, and it only reduces the cost to enter the hex to one MF. For most other purposes it does not exist.
IIRC, there are a couple of HASLs that allow double small vehicles (jeeps, kublewagons(SP?)) to use paths; as well, Cavalry also uses a 2mf rate for paths.
 

Eagle4ty

Forum Guru
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
6,913
Reaction score
5,094
Location
Eau Claire, Wi
Country
llUnited States
An infanty unit walks down a path in the woods. Does the unit as a target get attacked as if in open ground? Does the unit get the TEM of the woods automatically or does it depend upon whether the firer sees down the path directly? In our current game, or at least before we back it up due to error, there would have been a straight path created by a tank. Would an infantry unit be able to fire directly down that path as if it was woods/roads series of hexes? Tim
If you would not have LOS to a hex normally, having a hypothetical LOS down a Path or Trail Break in woods would make no difference as a LOS cannot be traced through either type of depiction/Articicial-terrain; The LOS to that hex would still be blocked. If you would have a LOS to the unit on a path or Trail Break in a woods hex it would receive the woods TEM [EXC: Air Bursts from Indirect Fire] no matter where the fire originated from and only the application of a -1 for utilizing a TB (and perhaps FFNAM) would also apply.
 

jrv

Forum Guru
Joined
May 25, 2005
Messages
21,998
Reaction score
6,206
Location
Teutoburger Wald
Country
llIceland
IIRC, there are a couple of HASLs that allow double small vehicles (jeeps, kublewagons(SP?)) to use paths; as well, Cavalry also uses a 2mf rate for paths.
He isn't playing Kampfgruppe Peiper nor with cavalry. But you are correct.

JR
 

Tim Niesen

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2016
Messages
1,209
Reaction score
146
Country
llUnited States
Let me see if I get this correct: there is a special -1 applied for a trail break but not a path. Neither is open ground. Normal Penalties apply to both of them for area fire. No LOS except if unit is either at edge of clearing or Adjacent to firing unit. Tim
 

jrv

Forum Guru
Joined
May 25, 2005
Messages
21,998
Reaction score
6,206
Location
Teutoburger Wald
Country
llIceland
That is correct. I would say, rather than there is no LOS, that normal LOS is not changed by a trail or a trail break. The special -1 for trail break applies only when the unit is moving (DFF), and only if the unit declares it is moving using the trail break cost. A unit on a trail break in phases other than its MPh does not get the -1 penalty, and even during its MPh it only gets the penalty if it uses the trail break when moving.

JR
 

semenza

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
Messages
961
Reaction score
432
Location
Poplar Ridge , NY
Country
llUnited States
Tim, just a general suggestion ............ when reading the rules try not to combine rules in your thinking unless those rules are actually spelled out to work together. Many , many (most?) things in the book do involve multiple rules but many do not. It is easy to accidentally equate things that seem as though they are similar or "the way it should be" in the real world but that does not necessarily translate to ASL rules. And many things that would make sense as being the same or similar are not what is in the rule book.

Yes. Woods road, path, trailbreak, could easily all be very similar but in ASL they are not.

COWTRA

Seth
 

Vinnie

See Dummies in the index
Joined
Feb 9, 2005
Messages
17,427
Reaction score
3,366
Location
Aberdeen , Scotland
Country
llUnited Kingdom
The -1 trailbreak DRM is generally only aplied to infantry when they are gooing through a minefield. Although a tank makes a TB through woods, that is of little effect for infantry as thery still pay the 2mf for woods. It makes it easier for AFVs though.
 

klasmalmstrom

Forum Guru
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Messages
19,780
Reaction score
7,204
Location
Sweden
Country
llSweden
...Although a tank makes a TB through woods, that is of little effect for infantry as thery still pay the 2mf for woods....
<cough, cough> :)

B13.4212:
" Infantry expend 1½ MF and Cavalry expend 3 MF to enter woods via a TB...."
 
Top