WA Questions

[Velocette]

ASL Novice in need of help with understanding / learning WA rules...… please see picture above.

It is the American MPh. Earlier in the phase, the 75L was HIP via Emplacement in W14. The US M4 76L made the wrong decision to significantly delay in V16.
The 75L decided to fire (lost HIP) and per B9.322 claimed WA. The TH DR was 2,3 enabling the 75L to retain concealment. NOTE: I have placed the "?" and WA counters to the side for clarity in the picture.

Q1: Is that correct so far? (My thought is Correct)

Continuing the MPh, the 666 in Z16 Assault Moves to Y16 and wants to claim WA as part of the MF expenditure per B9.322 regarding when WA can be claimed... "during its MPh/APh (either as part of, or before/after MF/MP expenditures). However, the EX following B9.321 indicates / implies that the 447 in X15 could DFF prior to the 666 gaining the WA counter and +1 TEM for the Hedge.

Q2: Can the 666 claim WA before 447 has chance to DFF? (My thought {via limited comprehension of B9 rules section} is YES)

That ends US MPh and German DFPh.

In the American AFPh, the 666 in Y15 elects to fire at the 75L.

Q3: For this shot, is the TEM +1 (Gun in WA and LOS crosses Hedge), +2 Emplacement or +3 Stone Building since per B9.32 "A unit claiming WA is still considered occupying any obstacle/terrain as it would if not claiming WA for all purposes (e.g., Concealment Terrain, firing backblast weapon from building) [EXC: 9.31]" --> B9.31 "[EXC: it may elect instead to receive appropriate TEM for Emplacement..." ? (My thought is it +2)

Finally, still in the American AFPh, the 346 in V12 fires at the 75L.

Q4: For this shot, is the TEM 0 (Gun in WA and LOS crosses only OG to hex center dot) per the EX following B9.321 or +2 or +3 per rule references cited above in Q3? (My thought is it +2)

Thanks for assistance.... suspect I will have more WA questions. Will try to use VASL screen crops to assist in discussions.

Velo

 

[jrv]

It is the American MPh. Earlier in the phase, the 75L was HIP via Emplacement in W14. The US M4 76L made the wrong decision to significantly delay in V16.
The 75L decided to fire (lost HIP) and per B9.322 claimed WA. The TH DR was 2,3 enabling the 75L to retain concealment. NOTE: I have placed the "?" and WA counters to the side for clarity in the picture.

Q1: Is that correct so far? (My thought is Correct)

Yes.

Continuing the MPh, the 666 in Z16 Assault Moves to Y16 and wants to claim WA as part of the MF expenditure per B9.322 regarding when WA can be claimed... "during its MPh/APh (either as part of, or before/after MF/MP expenditures). However, the EX following B9.321 indicates / implies that the 447 in X15 could DFF prior to the 666 gaining the WA counter and +1 TEM for the Hedge.

Q2: Can the 666 claim WA before 447 has chance to DFF? (My thought {via limited comprehension of B9 rules section} is YES)

Yes. Claiming WA can be done as part of a MF expenditure [A9.322], so the unit could declare that with the expenditure it claims WA. That allows no time gap for DFF. WA may also be declared after a MF expenditure, so in theory a unit could move into a location, allow DFF, then claim WA. In this case that cannot happen because hex Y16 has mandatory WA, and with mandatory WA the WA must be claimed as soon as possible.

For those who don't have the map handy, X15 is a building hex. That allows--indeed requires--that the American in Y16 take WA.

That ends US MPh and German DFPh.

In the American AFPh, the 666 in Y15 elects to fire at the 75L.

Q3: For this shot, is the TEM +1 (Gun in WA and LOS crosses Hedge), +2 Emplacement or +3 Stone Building since per B9.32 "A unit claiming WA is still considered occupying any obstacle/terrain as it would if not claiming WA for all purposes (e.g., Concealment Terrain, firing backblast weapon from building) [EXC: 9.31]" --> B9.31 "[EXC: it may elect instead to receive appropriate TEM for Emplacement..." ? (My thought is it +2)

As long as the Gun is marked with a WA counter, it may not use in-hex TEM except emplacement, i.e. it may not use the stone building [B9.31]. Furthermore wall/hedge is not cumulative with emplacement [C11.2]. So for TEM it could use the hedge +1 TEM or the emplacement +2 TEM. There is also a hindrance in X14, for a likely net IFT DRM of +3.

Finally, still in the American AFPh, the 346 in V12 fires at the 75L.

Q4: For this shot, is the TEM 0 (Gun in WA and LOS crosses only OG to hex center dot) per the EX following B9.321 or +2 or +3 per rule references cited above in Q3? (My thought is it +2)

Per B9.31 while the gun is marked with WA it does not receive the in-hex (stone building) TEM. It may claim any wall/hedge TEM, or it may claim emplacement (or the AFV TEM of an AFV that shares WA with it, which in this case is not possible because a vehicle cannot gain WA in a hex with in-hex TEM). The gun will probably claim the emplacement +2 TEM.

JR

 

[Paul John]

Hi JR,
Nicely explained as usual, but this makes me wonder.
If the gun is set up in the building, can it claim WA and then have emplacement TEM?
That is a slick trick to move out of the building, into the emplacement and still get off a shot
without losing concealment.
I couldn't find anything denying or supporting that though.

 

[jrv]

Hi JR,
Nicely explained as usual, but this makes me wonder.
If the gun is set up in the building, can it claim WA and then have emplacement TEM?
That is a slick trick to move out of the building, into the emplacement and still get off a shot
without losing concealment.
I couldn't find anything denying or supporting that though.

A gun in a building hex *is* emplaced. There is no moving from the building to the emplacement and back again. The gun can use either the emplacement TEM or the building TEM at its option if it is not marked with a WA counter. When in a stone building you would always use the stone building +3 TEM. In a wooden building you don't really care which you use. Also as a note, a gun in a pillbox is emplaced. The only reason that a gun can set up HIP in a building or a pillbox is because it is emplaced. I can't think of a reason you would use the emplacement TEM, but it's available nevertheless. The actual, physical location of the gun in the hex, especially when WA is used, is all very abstracty wacky.

JR

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Note that once you have claimed WA with the Gun/crew, you lose Emplacement if you voluntarily forfeit it (i.e., "go back" to claiming building TEM).

C11.3:
" If a Gun is a RCL or starts a scenario hooked up or manned by a non-crew unit, moves, or its manning Infantry voluntarily forfeits Wall Advantage (B9.322) it loses the “Emplaced” To Hit DRM of Case Q. Once lost, a Gun may not regain Emplaced status during that scenario."

Also, to shoot at that Sherman you did not have to claim WA to begin with.

 

[von Marwitz]

Note that once you have claimed WA with the Gun/crew, you lose Emplacement if you voluntarily forfeit it (i.e., "go back" to claiming building TEM).

C11.3:
" If a Gun is a RCL or starts a scenario hooked up or manned by a non-crew unit, moves, or its manning Infantry voluntarily forfeits Wall Advantage (B9.322) it loses the “Emplaced” To Hit DRM of Case Q. Once lost, a Gun may not regain Emplaced status during that scenario."

Also, to shoot at that Sherman you did not have to claim WA to begin with.

This is insteresting. Especially in terrain with many Hedges, Walls or Bocage. I was not aware of the possibility of "Emplacement" being lost.

von Marwitz

 

[Paul John]

Note that once you have claimed WA with the Gun/crew, you lose Emplacement if you voluntarily forfeit it (i.e., "go back" to claiming building TEM).

Jeez, talk about 'abstracty wacky'...

 

[Stewart]

Makes sense that you lose the Emplacement.

 

[Tuomo]

What map is that? I'm distressed at the green Hedges.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

What map is that? I'm distressed at the green Hedges.

Hatten.

 

[Justiciar]

What map is that? I'm distressed at the green Hedges.

Boxwood perhaps.

 

[GeorgeBates]

Boxwood perhaps.

Or holly.

 

[EJ1]

If the 447 in X15 had WA, would it receive protective DRM from the 666 in Y15? Thanks

 

[von Marwitz]

If the 447 in X15 had WA, would it receive protective DRM from the 666 in Y15? Thanks

No.

You either get In-Hex TEM or WA TEM. Not both.

If there is In-Hex TEM in X15, then the 447 would get that as it is not marked with a WA counter.
For the same reason, the 666 moving in from Z16 to Y16 will gain it.

If there would be no In-Hex TEM in X15, then the 447 would not have to be marked with a WA counter, as the ADJACENT 666 in Y15 did obviously not claim WA as evidenced by the absence of a WA counter but instead the Y15 666 obviously has In-Hex TEM as a corner of a Building is showing beneath it. When the other 666 enters Y16, then a WA counter would be placed on the 447 in X15 as it is now necessary to show which unit does have WA and which one does not.

von Marwitz

 

[jrv]

If the 447 in X15 had WA, would it receive protective DRM from the 666 in Y15?

No, not unless Y15 firegrouped with Y16. X15 would also not receive the building TEM for an attack from Y15 if it had WA.

JR