VotG to RO
- Thread starter Honza
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Paul_RS
Elder Member
There is a limit to what can be realistically portrayed at ASL level and still expect to retain a reasonable portrayal of what occurred historically. For something that size Streets of Stalingrad 3rd edition has it covered.
limitations- number of troops involved
command and control
massive artillery support, this is a huge feature in the Streets turn sequence.
the turn sequence in streets is less complex that ASL but to play the battle, even the areas portrayed on the maps shown would take weeks for a couple of players. The full campaign would easily take a team months to complete. To expect it to be portrayed at ASL level with a reasonable expectation that it could be balanced via play testing and then completed by players is a dream.
wrong scale for an action that size. IMHO.
Paul
limitations- number of troops involved
command and control
massive artillery support, this is a huge feature in the Streets turn sequence.
the turn sequence in streets is less complex that ASL but to play the battle, even the areas portrayed on the maps shown would take weeks for a couple of players. The full campaign would easily take a team months to complete. To expect it to be portrayed at ASL level with a reasonable expectation that it could be balanced via play testing and then completed by players is a dream.
wrong scale for an action that size. IMHO.
Paul
Paul_RS
Elder Member
Whatever happened to Perry? He was all over the forums a few years ago
Are you talking about Perry Pender? If so, he gave up playing and sold his ASL stuff for another wargame.
footsteps
Just visiting
You'll find the current rendition here:
VotG to RO
Ah, yes, the so-called "practicality" argument. ... Honestly, practicality takes it's leave after 2 maps are joined, maybe 3 for the fortunate folks with a full finished basement to devote. I built a 4'X8' table so I could have both RB & RO set up, still waiting on my son to pick a scenario...
www.gamesquad.com
Paul_RS
Elder Member
Wow, I wasn’t aware of that. I know he was full of praise for some of the Grognard Death Ride WW2 games. They aren’t cheap. Kursk at platoon level, 3000 counters just for the Gross Deutschland sector! Too many counters for my liking. Give me an OCS game every time.
RRschultze
Senior Member
Perry is now into Death Ride series of games. He sold his ASL kit, Joe Arthur bought it via EBay.
Honza
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Checked out the Death Ride series. Looks really interesting.
Honza
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Were there any battles on the far left?
footsteps
Just visiting
Timeline of the Battle of Stalingrad - Steven's Balagan
This is my timeline for the Battle of Stalingrad. The maps are largely from: RKKA in WW2: Maps 1942 South-Western Direction. Ideas for Wargaming scenarios are highlighted. 22 Jun 1941 At 0315 hours the Germans launched Operation ‘Barbarosa’ – the attack on the Soviet Union (Erickson, 1993)...
balagan.info
23 Aug 1942
Despite Soviet bombing raids and Katyusha strikes overnight, at 0415 or 0430 hours 16th Panzer Division headed east (Beevor, 1999; Erickson, 1993). The first real resistance was at Gumrak with anti-aircraft (AA) guns firing at the Panzers from the north-west corner of Stalingrad. German tanks attacked the AA batteries, which were largely crewed by partially trained young women. In an unequal battle the young women fired their 37mm guns directly at the advancing Germans. Eventually the Panzers, with Stuka help, knocked out the batteries. At 1600 hours 16th Panzer Division, reached Rynok and the Volga north of Stalingrad. German tanks and artillery began to fire on river traffic, although they also had to continue to suppress newly discovered AA positions. The German division reported destroying 37 separate AA posts during the day. LI Corps followed the Panzers into the breach.
At 1800 hours the Luftwaffe commenced its bombing campaign of Stalingrad (Fowler, 2005). This was the heaviest raid the Luftwaffe had conducted since 22 Jun 1941, and included the all 1,200 available planes (Beevor, 1999; Clark, 1965). Over 40,000 people were killed in the first week of bombing. Most of the wooden buildings on the outskirts of Stalingrad burned during the night. Subsequent fighting in those areas took place in the charred remains of the bungalows and workers settlements, where there was little cover except for the forest of brick chimneys that remained.
The motorcycle battalion of 16th Panzer Division probed the northern suburbs and captured a train of weapons and supply vehicles (Beevor, 1999).
At 2310 hours 79th Panzer Grenadier Regiment was in Spartanovka, the northern most suburb of Stalingrad on the banks of the Volga.
Those workers not directly involved in weapons production were drafted into ‘Special Brigades’ (Beevor, 1999). Most, but not all, were issued weapons and ammunition, before being sent to the front. Some of these untrained and badly equipped battalions were mauled when sent against the 16th Panzer Division in the northern suburb of Spartakovka.
Meanwhile tank manufacture continued, and unpainted T-34s rolled off the production line directly into battle (Beevor, 1999)
Honza
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Hi @footsteps are you going to go further south too?
MAS01
Senior Member
Anyone have a 50' table available?
footsteps
Just visiting
I'm thinking of re-doing the section Perry did (making it longer), and then pushing further south.
But first... I gotta finish Rynok & Spartanovka.
Honza
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By how much did Perry shorten the GE maps?
Eagle4ty
Forum Guru
Certainly needs to revisit the Grain Elevator (at least as to its dominance of other terrain in the area-perhaps a level 3 building on one side).https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiMiaKLmY_zAhUaHc0KHdvJBCYQwqsBegQIAxAB&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3pMF_8ik6A&usg=AOvVaw07Vk2-e9D_aF61rqUaO79d
footsteps
Just visiting
In the positioning of the Grain Elevator itself, there's only about a 4" difference - mine will be south (and a bit east) of his placement. This can mostly be attributed to differences in source material, and assumptions made about scaling - all "in the eye of the beholder", rather than 'exact science'.
My biggest difference will be the Yelshanka River and the big curve of the rail line from the docks. With the material I'm working with, the rail line will exit the west side of the map at the equivalent of the extreme bottom left corner of Perry's map - about 12 hexes lower than Perry has the exit. All the topography south of that rail line will obviously be pushed farther down. However, I do have the mouth of the Yelshanka at the same spot as Perry.
Differences in interpretation.
von Marwitz
Forum Guru
footsteps
Just visiting
Shhhhhh...
