VotG to RO

FrankH.

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I can't avoid commenting any longer. This project is interesting, perhaps important, perhaps overdue.

One thing is blocking me from getting too interested, however. I discovered the alignment of the Red October maps to the Red Barricades maps are not accurate. There is about a 5 degree twist to the RO maps. Undoubtedly the idea, the reason, was to make the road networks line up into a straight run all the way through the two factory areas. As far as I know, this is unnecessary, though someone potentially be able to explain it to me.

If the maps alignment issue cannot be corrected I don't see the point of going forward, south that is. Either redo the RO maps, or (less desirable) incorporate some kind of a 5 degree wedge connector map section between the RB and RO maps.
 

21Z5M

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I’m on a Stalingrad kick. Reading Island of Fire. Would there be any real interest in the tennis racket?
 
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footsteps

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I can't avoid commenting any longer. This project is interesting, perhaps important, perhaps overdue.

One thing is blocking me from getting too interested, however. I discovered the alignment of the Red October maps to the Red Barricades maps are not accurate. There is about a 5 degree twist to the RO maps. Undoubtedly the idea, the reason, was to make the road networks line up into a straight run all the way through the two factory areas. As far as I know, this is unnecessary, though someone potentially be able to explain it to me.

If the maps alignment issue cannot be corrected I don't see the point of going forward, south that is. Either redo the RO maps, or (less desirable) incorporate some kind of a 5 degree wedge connector map section between the RB and RO maps.
The hexgrid requirements for ASL maps make it impossible for the "twists" to be incorporated properly. The north end of the VotG map bends too much. It should be about 8-9 degrees, but the next available hexgrid bend is 15 degrees. It can't be avoided for playability in ASL. For geographical precision, the only option is Area combat/movement systems.

Here is the geographically accurate alignment of Stalingrad from the Tractor Works in the north to the Grain Elevator area to the south.

26514
 

Vic Provost

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The hexgrid requirements for ASL maps make it impossible for the "twists" to be incorporated properly. The north end of the VotG map bends too much. It should be about 8-9 degrees, but the next available hexgrid bend is 15 degrees. It can't be avoided for playability in ASL. For geographical precision, the only option is Area combat/movement systems.

Here is the geographically accurate alignment of Stalingrad from the Tractor Works in the north to the Grain Elevator area to the south.

View attachment 26514
As soon as you have to bend real geography to a hexgrid it is what it is, I and Tom Morin both think what these guys have done with the Stalingrad maps is extraordinary. You are not going to get perfect, not at this scale.

It is more important to get good scenarios and campaigns together for those parts of the city (Tennis Racquet, Mamayev Kurgan and the Grain Elevator at the minimum) where fierce fighting took place and we have no official HASL for it. I would love to play on any before I no longer can but at this point in my hobby life, neither me nor Tom will be volunteering to do so. Good luck to whomever tries...
 

stuh42asl

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As soon as you have to bend real geography to a hexgrid it is what it is, I and Tom Morin both think what these guys have done with the Stalingrad maps is extraordinary. You are not going to get perfect, not at this scale.

It is more important to get good scenarios and campaigns together for those parts of the city (Tennis Racquet, Mamayev Kurgan and the Grain Elevator at the minimum) where fierce fighting took place and we have no official HASL for it. I would love to play on any before I no longer can but at this point in my hobby life, neither me nor Tom will be volunteering to do so. Good luck to whomever tries...
That damn age thing sneaks up and kicks us all in the arse....:p
 

Bryan Holtby

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The hexgrid requirements for ASL maps make it impossible for the "twists" to be incorporated properly. The north end of the VotG map bends too much. It should be about 8-9 degrees, but the next available hexgrid bend is 15 degrees. It can't be avoided for playability in ASL. For geographical precision, the only option is Area combat/movement systems.

Here is the geographically accurate alignment of Stalingrad from the Tractor Works in the north to the Grain Elevator area to the south.

View attachment 26514
Do you have the DTW section in a file alone? I tried having a map elf convert the CH DTW map to VASL but the hex grids on the original map are are unworkable. I started making a VASL map, got a good photo onto a hex grid of the right scale and started hand drawing buildings....but its a LONG, PAINFUL project for someone who's juggling work/house/wife/life and grandchildren.
 

footsteps

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Do you have the DTW section in a file alone? I tried having a map elf convert the CH DTW map to VASL but the hex grids on the original map are are unworkable. I started making a VASL map, got a good photo onto a hex grid of the right scale and started hand drawing buildings....but its a LONG, PAINFUL project for someone who's juggling work/house/wife/life and grandchildren.
The files I have are pretty raw, with no effort yet on foliage, rubble, debris, shellholes, etc. I also decided a few months ago that the decisions I made on alignment and size are mostly wrong and have to be re-done almost from scratch. It IS a long process, but it's the kind of creative work I enjoy.

My first hope is to get hard copies of the RB/RO maps so I can create a compatible "bump" map of the shoreline that's cut-off in the official maps. I'm OCD enough to be unsatisfied with the missing real estate, even if not much action happened there - it existed, so it MUST exist in map form!
 

Bryan Holtby

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The files I have are pretty raw, with no effort yet on foliage, rubble, debris, shellholes, etc. I also decided a few months ago that the decisions I made on alignment and size are mostly wrong and have to be re-done almost from scratch. It IS a long process, but it's the kind of creative work I enjoy.

My first hope is to get hard copies of the RB/RO maps so I can create a compatible "bump" map of the shoreline that's cut-off in the official maps. I'm OCD enough to be unsatisfied with the missing real estate, even if not much action happened there - it existed, so it MUST exist in map form!
I have a few aerials of stalingrad dl'd from http://www.wwii-photos-maps.com/ but the site itself looks to be abandoned. The only pics I have which show the missing section of the RB map is small and of poor quality when zoomed in. Ive emailed the owner in the past but have not received any response.

He claims to have received many of the photos on his site from https://www.archives.gov/college-park, but you might need help from the staff finding the right photos
 

footsteps

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The maps and aerial photos I have are large and detailed, but the task of 'straightening out' the various sections to align with the hexgrid has led me to make some poor choices that I'm now reconsidering a year or two later.
 

footsteps

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Finally put my mind to it and re-did DTW, the Brick Works, and the Lazur/Lokomotiv connector between RO and VOTG. Haven't tackled Mamayev Kurgan yet.

Spartanovka to the north (left), down to the Yelshanka River to the south (right).
26620
 

Honza

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Didn’t the original Squad Leader booklet say the city fighting would be 10 maps?
SL said that the DTW alone would cover 10 geomorphic maps (or was it 20?). They exaggerated. I think the DTW area covers 5 geo maps.
 

Old Noob

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5 maps. 8 maps. 10 maps. It all depends on the initial size of mapsheet you are striving to utilize!
 
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