VotG CG IV: The North Shore Open

Eagle02

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Using Recon is a must I think for the Russians in the night counterattack. In VotG CG I, with its small play area, its almost TOO powerful. In the bigger CGs it should still be useful to scout out your point of attack.
We haven't spent any CPP on recon at night yet. Recon was one of the functions of the creeping barrage though. If the 20FP attack caused at least a PTC in the hex we pretty much knew it was clear. If the stack broke or revealed dummies that much the better. That's why it was worth it for us with 120mm OBA despite the high CPP cost.
 

Eagle02

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17N G5 thru G6

We knocked out another 3 player turns last night. Dr. D did note that the StuG was CE but there was no counter on it, hence my confusion that his NVR was halved. In prep the first German shot was the flip side of their last shot, 6,6 to malf the 75mm INF gun in T28. Otherwise the G5 focus was mainly on movement. CC29 scored a starshell into CC27 and W31 placed one in T28.

A 4-6-7 in X18 DT’d to move forward toward the BB26 building. DD30.2 had eyes on him in Z27 and took a long range shot with no effect. One he got to AA27 Mike’s 45L tagged him for a CH which broke him with a 1MC. This made the German SAN hot breaking a mortar squad in V36.2. Dr. D’s bold move did not draw fire from the cloaker in BB27 but the next one did. The 10-2/4-6-7/HMG pulled out of DD27 into CC27. BB27 and DD26 both dropped cloak to first fire and encircle them. The second shot caused an NMC but they both passed. Up north Mike P moved up on the Waterworks but Mike S held all of his fire for DF.

The creeping barrage is now far enough west that it is no longer worth reporting. Mike fired up the brokies in AA27 with the 45L again scoring another CH, 1MC, and a “2” SAN activation that allowed the Germans to move their SAN. Next shot Mike malf’d the 45L. From X20 Mike used spraying fire to break a concealed 5-4-8 in W20 but BH’d and created a hero from a 4-4-7 in X19.

The Germans pushed in for the kill in a rare case of aggressive CC seeking at night. The 10-2/4-6-7/HMG pushed into BB27 going CX. There was no ambush and my 4-4-7 died taking the lives of the Germans. A HtH melee resulted in Y20 as both Mike’s bolo’d their DRs. The existing melee in Z29 went to the Germans killing my 4-4-7. Game end dr was too high so we headed into R6.

The Russians needed to maximize their gains at this point. The last bulwark of German defenses in the center left when the 10-2 stack died in BB27. I self-rallied my 4-4-7 in AA34.

We put up some starshells but there was no prep fire aside from the barrage moving west. Generally I moved to capture all of the stone locations we could and insure we could get into close combat with broken German units before they slipped away. This worked out especially well in the case of the 5-4-8/DC and 4-6-7 who killed my dude in Z29. They were illuminated and could not see my cloakers move adjacent to the east. Dr. D broke these guys rather than have them get waxed in CC. We secured the entire BB25 building, Z27, and Z29. This trimmed off a big swath of the ‘ball sack/pimple” region.
In close combat I jumped the large broke stack (2x4-6-7, 2x2-3-7, and a 2-3-6) who routed from CC27 to AA27 by this player turn. I hedged my bets and went for 1:2 HtH against the 2 full squads and a 2-3-7 and successfully killed them off.

In G6 the Germans tried to steal as much as they could to mitigate the damage in the center. They were pretty successful at this at the site of the day fighting around the Waterworks and Y17 building. Too many Germans got woken up and Mike’s dice eventually hosed him. The Germasn also took R36, T32, and U31 further south. The StuG moved up to R35 where I revealed a HIP 8-1/4-5-8/2xMMG stack that tagged a 4-6-7 who set off booby traps on the PTC in S33. I pumped a bunch of 45L rounds and 76L rounds at him to no effect except to cause a SAN pin on AA31. My FT CR’d a broke 4-4-7 in Y29.

We pick up again in 2 weeks. No time for ppt today. See attached pics. Ialso recorded 3 questions which I'll post to the rules thread.

Death Toll
German: 1x8-3-8, 5.5x5-4-8, 10.5x4-6-7, 1.5x4-4-7, 2x10-2, 9-1, 8-1 (48 cvp)
Soviet: 1x6-2-8, 1x4-5-8, 7.5x4-4-7, 1x7-0 (21 cvp)
 

Cpl Uhl

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I'm curious about the German Night tactics to counter Russian strength. In our CG I game, we've only played one turn of the first night scenario but the Germans are already getting murdered, having placed good units in the front lines in a setup designed to hold territory.

In line with what someone said in another thread, it seems fair that the German should count on losing at about 1/3 of his previous day's gains in any following Russian night counterattack. That being the case, is this a workable German plan:

In front-line locations, set up a screen of 1st line (or lower) squads/hs and dummies, plus maybe mines to simply slow down the Russians. Expect to lose this screen to Ambush/CC. Have a second line of stronger forces, w/support weapons and good leaders who can hope to have LOS to KEU and/or get the best leader freedom of movement with the under the ELR dr. Then, if you're not too far from the board edge for it to be practicable, enter assault forces, inc. armor, from offboard (free to move) for an eventual counterattack against the Russian breakthrough points.

This would seem to work especially well in CG I with it's small board area. Entering from offboard would be less and less practical the further into the map you were in the bigger CGs.

Thoughts? Experience?
 

Bob Holmstrom

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I'm curious about the German Night tactics to counter Russian strength. In our CG I game, we've only played one turn of the first night scenario but the Germans are already getting murdered, having placed good units in the front lines in a setup designed to hold territory.

In line with what someone said in another thread, it seems fair that the German should count on losing at about 1/3 of his previous day's gains in any following Russian night counterattack. That being the case, is this a workable German plan:

In front-line locations, set up a screen of 1st line (or lower) squads/hs and dummies, plus maybe mines to simply slow down the Russians. Expect to lose this screen to Ambush/CC. Have a second line of stronger forces, w/support weapons and good leaders who can hope to have LOS to KEU and/or get the best leader freedom of movement with the under the ELR dr. Then, if you're not too far from the board edge for it to be practicable, enter assault forces, inc. armor, from offboard (free to move) for an eventual counterattack against the Russian breakthrough points.

This would seem to work especially well in CG I with it's small board area. Entering from offboard would be less and less practical the further into the map you were in the bigger CGs.

Thoughts? Experience?
Bob Miller should chime in here as he did a pretty good job of blunting my night counterattack.

First off, don't put a string of single squads up front to "slow" the russian advance. Single squads do not have enough FP to strip concealment/cloaking and will either have to self-break or hope for some excellent luck in CC.

Second, buy max minefields.

Third, build strongpoints. 2 or 3x5-4-8's/LMG's+8-1, 9-1 or 9-2 leader will blast the crap out of any AM moving cloakies. Add a Stug to the hex for greater effect.

Fourth, set up high ground killstacks if possible. If you have some level 2 locations, set up those killstacks to rake the illuminated street hexes.

Fifth, leaders or half-squads with DC's on level 1's. Germans often have plenty of both DC's and 7-0/8-0 leaders. Put 'em on level 1 buildings and drop the packages down on to the streets.

The above were some of the things Bob M. did that proved very effective against my attack.
 

Tork

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A smart German will threaten to take ground on the sectors away from the main Russian attack. Get a leader with freedom of movement and have him sprint to another area to spread the joy. Also, fire starshells over the entire front line, hoping to put concealed Russians in illumination. Shoot until a real unit is revealed, giving freedom of movement to those in LOS.

Russians at night will stay on ground level, because if an elevated firegroup is revealed, every German in LOS can hope to get freedom of movement. I had a 45L ATG on level one that I did not crew just to avoid this situation.
 

janusz.maxe

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1: Retreat behind the next road/square/OG
2: Form a HS/crew/dummy screen in the road/square/OG
3: When the Soviets engage the line, at soe place they will lose concealment, and their position meansthat a lot of Germans gain Freedom. Also, in shellholes and ADJ to a real German line, they will be very vulnerable to MG stacks, guns and StuGs sweeping the long streets
 

Bob Miller

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Here's a little encouragement to the four of you boys for playing this baby thru so far. You guys have my respect. I have certainly enjoyed following the AAR so far and really look forward to the dates when each side has run out of troops and how things go then.

Bob H. don't do yourself a disservice regarding your Sept 14th night counter. It was a good plan and executed perfectly. Your application of night rule tactics were a ***** to defend against. Heck, you took back almost half of my territory. But I hung unto what I absolutely must had too.

German player on defense, two words. Dummies and Mines. Those DC toss downs don't hurt either.
 

quintanius

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When we aborted our first CG4 game, I had at least a chance to set up the German Defenses. Not too hard with 60 some odd squads and tons of support weapons. This new OB I received in the re-start we're playing leaves me awake at night...

Something I wanted to try, and am pretty sure will do wonders, is to have a squad upstairs in the multi-hex buildings and one downstairs in the cellar, possibly a Kill Stack. If the Russ assault moves adjacent in the street then thats a good shot. Then again when he advances into the hex. Prep-Fire will encircle them. Then, they will have to sit and either loose concealment and shoot up or down (with that extra +1 for encirclement) and then survive another Defensive Fire Phase. Then they can choose to advance, but hey will most likely go down into the cellar. Some other Russians will need to shoot up those german defenders upstairs. If they move into the upstair location, then all the german squads set up to see that location gain freedom of movement pretty quickly, as was mentioned before here with that 47mm gun and the crew. And perhaps some Trenches could be used to connect some interesting cellars to get troops from one side of the street to the other without exposing them to Russian fire. And dropping a DC down the hatch sounds like fun too.

My other thought was to just max out each stack with 3 squads and support weapons, use all 4 possible Fortifications allowed to the German in some good locations that help each other out, and sit there to weather the storm. Who cares about isolation as long as they survive...I'll be trying some of these ideas in our first night. And some of the ones posted. Thanks for sharing.


Thomas
 

Eagle02

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Cpl Uhl you've started a great side topic thread here. I think our German opponents have done most of what has been proposed at one time or another. For the Russian player the key is to plan to avoid, mitigate, or accept each risk. Fore-warned is fore-armed.

- don't put a string of single squads up front to "slow" the russian advance. Single squads do not have enough FP to strip concealment/cloaking and will either have to self-break or hope for some excellent luck in CC.
* This is going to happen b/c the German player can't really leave a gap in the line completely undefended. So when you see 2x"?" in the setup it may be an opportunity.

- buy max minefields.
* I think this helps the Germans as long as it's a surprise. If the area if that critical to the German and near the front it may be worth paying for recon. You may have to go thru them anyway so some ENGs on hand to play their traditional role might be wise. Generally it takes time and is dicey to clear though.

- build strongpoints. 2 or 3x5-4-8's/LMG's+8-1, 9-1 or 9-2 leader will blast the crap out of any AM moving cloakies. Add a Stug to the hex for greater effect.
* Probably the best advice here. The Russian player has to turn these into opportunities to kill some good stuff. Figure out how. Multiple direct fire weapons, OBA, smoke, a well placed SAN, are all possibilities.

- set up high ground killstacks if possible. If you have some level 2 locations, set up those killstacks to rake the illuminated street hexes.
* same as above

- leaders or half-squads with DC's on level 1's. Germans often have plenty of both DC's and 7-0/8-0 leaders. Put 'em on level 1 buildings and drop the packages down on to the streets.
* This has not turned up yet. Maybe once but the DR wasn't so hot. I can't remember now.

-Retreat behind the next road/square/OG
* I think this gets difficult for the German player. Don't you need freedom of mvt first (even if the unit is broken)?

- Form a HS/crew/dummy screen in the road/square/OG
* See above

- When the Soviets engage the line, at some place they will lose concealment, and their position meansthat a lot of Germans gain Freedom.
* Yup. I think we learned this the hard way in our 14N scenario. The Russian player has to have a plan to defend the quiet sectors and not wake up every German unit in Stalingrad. Mines, set DCs, HIPsters, dummies, obstacles, reverse slope positions, etc... are all on the menu. Accept that some positions may not be worth defending b/c you'll provide too many Germans w/freedom of mvt. Let them have it but make it hurt if you can.

- Also, in shellholes and ADJ to a real German line, they will be very vulnerable to MG stacks, guns and StuGs sweeping the long streets
* Smoke is very effective at night. There's no reason why you should not use it to support an attack if it is appropriate. Get the 82mm mortars or whatever in position within NVR.

It takes some planning and decent execution to get the right night attack effects as the Russian or day attack effects as the German. Cloaked CC attacks for the Russian and killstacks for the Germans won't get it done by itself. Tha
 

Cpl Uhl

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Thanks for all of the responses guys. Some comments:

The strongpoint idea is OK - but if there is heavy arty coming down those quality squads will just end up broken and taken out in CC.

And retreating behind the next road/OG is good, but in CG I there isn't really that much room for the German to employ this tactic.

Mines seem a good bet, as do high level kill stacks and of course as much illumnination as possible.

As for the string of S/HS, of course they'll die. The point, esp in CG I, is to cost the Russians a turn or two while the German assault forces enter from offboard and come up for the counterattack. Probably wouldn't work in the big CG's.

In fact, due to the constricted space I wonder if the Russians don't have an advantage in CGI, if they pursue good night counterattacks.

Play on!
 

Bob Miller

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Hate to continue to derail this CG-IV thread about night tactics..... but why not. You guys are taking a two week break so we gotta fill the downtime with other stuff.

One thing I was deathly afraid of during my night battle was the "7" Russian SAN taking out a key leader and all the troops stacked w/ him break. Limited night routing could mean a death sentence and cause a major breakthrough in that sector. Thus when constructing the front line hard points, try to only stack 8-1 leaders with 548 troops. This way the troops don't take a MC if the leader buys it.
 

Eagle02

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Hate to continue to derail this CG-IV thread about night tactics..... but why not. You guys are taking a two week break so we gotta fill the downtime with other stuff.

One thing I was deathly afraid of during my night battle was the "7" Russian SAN taking out a key leader and all the troops stacked w/ him break. Limited night routing could mean a death sentence and cause a major breakthrough in that sector. Thus when constructing the front line hard points, try to only stack 8-1 leaders with 548 troops. This way the troops don't take a MC if the leader buys it.
.

No problem, great stuff. It was all my fault anyway. I went on vacation to Ireland last week. We're hoping to finish up the 17N scenario this coming Tuesday. Any hiatus in Dec should NOT be my fault. The German crew is heading to the Albany tourney and it'll be a case of juggling commitments and family. I'd go too but I drill the first w/e of every month.

The SAN is pretty high for both sides in our game. No stacks have crumbled from a leader getting waxed that I can recall but the fear is real.
 

Eagle02

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Last night we finished the 17N scenario much to the relief of the German player team. I rolled 6,3 for the wind change so NVR dropped to 3 hexes. Otherwise our rally phase had no result. Initially we popped starshells into S36 and W25. This supported the few shots we took. I had the 76* in S39.1 fire HEAT at the StuG in R35. I had 2 hits but both were duds (ah yes, m early game night boxcars). Since the gun couldn’t do the job I had the MMG stack inT36 blast the CE StuG crew who broke on a 5,6 DR for the stun. I broke the 45L in U35 with a 3rd set of boxcars. At this point I was ready for the 9-2/4-5-8 in BB27 to declare opportunity fire.

The Germans tossed up a ton of light with starshells in U30, BB28, CC20, and Z15. This slowed me down a bit. First move I AM’d a 4-4-7 from Z27 to Y28. I think Dr. D goaded Mike P into firing these guys up from Z25 with the 10-2/4-6-8/HMG, 4-6-8/MMG stack setting their CA to the SW. I forget which shot broke my 4-4-7 but he broke. The fanatic 4-5-8 in BB27 assault moved and grabbed the DC in AA27. I had a few other assault moves in the center sector but nothing of note. A cloaked unit assault from BB25 into AA25. This hex was blind to Z25 because it was not illuminated. My last move was the ENG/FT into X29 so they could roast the stack in X28 who did not rally with the 9-1.

It was not to be. The Z25 stack fired up Y28 again with the heavy who kept rate of fire. I passed the first NMC but made the German SAN hot and it broke the Engineers with the FT. IIRC he got rate of fire again and CR’d the 4-4-7 and then rolled boxcars to malf the HMG. Having broke my engineers the Germans forced me to tag X28 from BB27 in AF. I got an NMC result that CR’d the 5-4-8 and killed a 2-3-7.The remaining 2-3-8 routed away. Mike P decided to stay and fight in Z25. Fatal error for the 10-2 and 4-6-8/HMG. I pushed the cloakers in from AA25 who ambushed and killed them. They survived the attack back so this remained a Hth melee.

In German turn 7 Brian started prospecting like the Oklahoma territory had just opened up. First he X’d out the 75mm infantry gun that was broken. Prep fire was minimal and ineffective. The StuG missed its shot at T36. We lit up the front with starshells before movement started in earnest (R32, S32, S32, Z25, and U6). Not comprehensive but decent enough.

In the south Dr. D moved a concealed stack in the dark from P39 to Q43. That block from R43 south was covered by units in the “S” hex row so my decision was whether to drop HIP from S38 to tag this particular move by a concealed unit in Q40 (it would’ve been 15/6 FP -1NAM-1ldr-1 blvd+1LV so not terrible) but I held out for something better. So he made it to R43 in advance to take the hex. However, another unit pushed into R37 thinking he could gain a toehold into the Univermag. This unit got blasted by a HIP NKVD with 2xHMGs/8-1. I stripped his concealment and broke him with a 5,1 DR. I decided to go for SFF and use sustained fire on him. I CR’d the squad and X’d out 1x HMG with a 10 DR (RS applied here, correct?). The 76* in S39.1 finished off the broken 2-4-7 in DF but after that I X’d the gun out trying to fire up R35 again.

Another shot I just totally lucked out on. A second StuG III G started moving down Bolshayvistkaya in the light of 2 starshells. I patiently let Brian move him down the street and bypass the debris. I tagged the StuG from CC38 with a 76L as it’s in bypass of T25. CH, burning wreck, done.
My 4-4-7 in melee in Z25 died after 2 rounds of CC. Game end dr was a 3 IIRC at 1130pm so we finished up and put the perimeter together. This was a Soviet victory with 33 stone hexes gained and 15 lost for a net +18.

Death Toll:
German: 1x8-3-8, 6x5-4-8, 1.5x4-6-8, 12.5x4-6-7, 2.5x4-4-7, 3x10-2, 9-1, 1xStuG III G, and a 75* gun (68 CVP)
Soviet: .5xENG, 1x6-2-8, 1x5-2-7, 1.5x4-5-8, 9x4-4-7,1x7-0 (27CVP)

Not a bad night for Rodina. We’re certainly not complaining. Now it’s time to steel ourselves for some German payback. I expect we’ll have a week off next week as the German team is heading off to the Albany tourney (I wish I could but I have drill that w/e). I’ll get some pics up and the perimeter soon. Mike should have some notes on the northern fight.
 

Bob Miller

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Wholey Smokes!!! Three German 10-2 keaders kaput. I would be crying in my beer.

Interesting to see what the Germans do here. The 18th and 19th are "0" Hist days for both sides. The 20th - thru 22nd are when the German get huge edge in Hist drm over the Russians. I wonder if the Germans have much Green or Blue RG infantry left to tie them over until the Purple comes availble on the 20th. Do they keep pressing the attack on the 18th & 19th or do they set things up for a big push on the 20th+.
 

Morbii

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I CR’d the squad and X’d out 1x HMG with a 10 DR (RS applied here, correct?). The 76* in S39.1 finished off the broken 2-4-7 in DF but after that I X’d the gun out trying to fire up R35 again.
Yes, RS. By "X'd", do you mean malfunctioned? A 10 sustaining firing a Russian HMG will only malf it. A 12 would X it. Same with the 76* during intensive fire (unless unqualified).
 

Eagle02

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Yes, I just malf'd both the HMG and the 76*. The 76* had an inexperienced crew manning it but no IF.
 

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Late start last night but we squeezed in a player turn to kick things off. The Germans mixed things up by initiating their attack on the NKVD/GRU House with a barrage which landed accurately on Y9 supported by more modest S1 stukas. None were granted on turn 1. There was some rule controversy regarding the TEM for the cellar locations which you can check out here: http://forums.gamesquad.com/showthread.php?p=1232796&posted=1#post1232796

All the Russkies inside were holed up in the cellars but this did not help much.6-2-8s broke inY8 and Y9 cellars (I believe X7 should be a pin). Mike P. received an accurate pre-registered SR in W5 and then pushed up about 2 platoons of what appears to be mostly StoB squads who did not have enough MFs to advance into the factory. He also used a 2-4-8 to gain northern board edge hexes getting as far as Z0. Further south toward the center Mike P unleashed a death stars from Y17.2 with an 8-1 with 2 squads plus an MMG and HMG which pinned a 2-3-7 in BB16.C but broke both MGs on their rof shot in random selection (back to back boxcars IIRC). He also made some gains to adjust the line west of Krasnozoyskaya.

The scene of last night’s fighting was mostly quiet. Brian AM’d units to grab back some locations but no defenders challenged the moves. The only shots in the sector were from a squad with 2 mortars fired from DD25.2 during DF for no result.

Brian used R43.C to support a platoon sized attack to clear the building. An 8-3-8 opened up with a FT against a 1-2-7/HMG in S44.C I tagged the 8-3-8 and concealed stack in DF from Z41.1 with a 9-2/4-5-8/.50. My first shot was a 3,3 which broke the 8-3-8/FT/DC and pinned another 8-3-8/FT/DC who passed but revealed a 9-1 adding his mod to the results. My 1-2-7 died for FTR after Brian routed into R44.C.

About this time Mike S. was shooting mortars at the board edge-runner and activated 2 snipers who both scored hits on leaders (wounding an 8-1 in Z37 and a 9-0 in Z9). The Germans also waxed a gun crew in AA8 when I reminded him that he did not take the 2MC for the HIP gun. He rolled boxcars. So the only deaths so far are crews.

Looks good so far though. Everyone has had their share of boxcars to kick things off. Seems like there are a lot less Germans attacking and they are concentrated in the northern sector to make up for that. I expect today is a shaping operation 2 phases with the schwerpunkt is in the north in phase 1 (post-CG we can reveal where we expected it to be) and shifting toward the center in phase 2 (especially as any indications arise that we are reinforcing the north). We have not seen much of the new German order of battle yet but I would not be surprised if some appear from the northern board edge to carry the momentum forward once the initial troops peter off.

Maybe tomorrow I'll have some edited pics to share, for now, these reflect initial setup.
 

Eagle02

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Here are some pics from 18D G1 (scenario #7 !!). The commentary/analysis is all my own from the Soviet side so it could be wrong and the Germans have me duped.

We pickup at R1 tonight.
 

=FC=Gorgon

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Hi folks,

Sorry I haven't been keeping up with my posts. Nov was a very busy month for me at work. I managed to get away to play the scenario once/week, but not enough time to put my notes together for a post. I hope to do better for 18D.

As Jim said, we just squeezed out one turn of 18D and he reported the most interesting stuff. Maybe I got his disease of rolling boxcars early with that 2MC for the 45L crew. Oh well. We play tomorrow night so hopefully I'll have a post on Friday.

Mike S
 
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