VotG CG IV: The North Shore Open

Tork

Member
Joined
May 1, 2004
Messages
1,518
Reaction score
24
Location
Foxboro, MA
Country
llUnited States
The amount of German dummies at night also negates the effectivenes of Soviet sniper, as Melvin noted in his playing (the first AAR posted here IIRC).
Janusz
I saw the same thing. Placing dummies in the debris or shellholes near the important stuff did a good job of keeping the leaders safe. At least until after the dummies had been burned off...

For night CGIII, I learned to move my sniper on a lot of '2' dr results as close to the friendly lines as possible, so the sniper would be drawn to front line positions rather than hit the dummies in the enemy backfield.
 

=FC=Gorgon

Minister of Propaganda
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
1,124
Reaction score
384
Location
Ryalside
Country
llUnited States
Besides, the best use for Sullichenko is leading a Human Wave across one of the squares..
You should really consider that at some point in the CG, Jim. Will Dr D really shoot himself? What am I saying! Of course he would. :p Plus, MikeP and I have gotten bored playing with fire in the Milchaus. We want to see some self-abuse. Maybe he'll hurt his back laughing so hard? Then who will help him? :lier:

M
 

=FC=Gorgon

Minister of Propaganda
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
1,124
Reaction score
384
Location
Ryalside
Country
llUnited States
We finished up 14N on Tue night. This was from turn G4 to G6 at which the game ended. I will give a summary and hopefully Jim can fill in some numbers before he takes off for a trip on Thu.

G4 was pretty quiet. Jim continued his assault on P39 block by shooting what he can. The German teams shuffles their units around but no major shooting. A 6-2-8 NKVD breaks in R36 and routes to S36 is the only real action. The German team fought back that side of the attack and is consolidating their hold on that block.

Turn 5 is a little more exciting. The previously broken 6-2-8 NKVD implodes on boxcars during a self-rally (payback for the Germans xing out a malfed StuG MA in G4). Up North, I start moving cloaked units toward N1 and O1 in an attempt to grab some territory near the board edge. I manage to get 2 x 6-2-8 and 9-0 onto O1 (exposed, FF broke the cloak) in the advance phase and smoke a 4-6-7 with HtH in CC. Jim pushes the attack in the P39 block. He kills some guys in CC but I didn't record exactly what. MikeP is starting to wake up units in the K14 area which I don't like. :)

Turn 6, I start pushing west along the board edge (the more the better). I break another 4-6-7 who routes away. I have 2 x 6-2-8s cloaked near the burning Milchaus complex and they try to grab a little more territory for the perimeter as well; keeping an eye on the guys in the K14 area too. During DFF, a German deathstar in P38 gets a snakes roll but only get a Pin due to a tied morale roll. Heh heh. :)

MikeP starts to move his K14 guys and Dr D does what damage he can in the South but the game ends. Here is the death count as I have it for 14N:

German:
1.5 x 5-4-8
6 x 4-6-7
1 x 4-4-7
3 x 1-2-7
2 x 8-1
1 x 8-0

Russian:
1.5 x 6-2-8 NKVD
3 x 5-2-7
4.5 x 4-4-7
1.5 x 4-2-6

One of our tactical goals for 14N was to kill 10 German squads so at least we accomplished that. We did not get enough stone locations to win the scenario.

Thanks,
M
 
Last edited:

Bob Miller

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2005
Messages
1,530
Reaction score
203
Location
Chicago
Country
llUnited States
Roughly 26 to 21 in infantry CVP. This CG pretty much had a straight perimeter down the L/M hexrow if I recall correctly. Thus it seems that it would have been harder for the Russian night assault to break into the German backfield and cause trouble as there were less "surface area" for the Russians to take advantage of and try to force a weak area in the Jerry defense.

Question. If my Germans shoots and kills 5 Russian 628s is that 10 CVP for the Germans or 10 CVP for the Russians. (or perhaps 10 CVP against the Russians) I'm wondering in all this CG reporting, people are bungling the correct use of CVP direction. Not that important of an issue but nice if I standardized what I report to what the rules say.

2 points for a 127 crew is harsh. Give me a full 467 squad anyday and I'll mourn the death of that 467 alot more than the 127 as a German commander. Considering that the MMG or HMG crews are usually stacked with a leader anyways, the self-ralling isn't that important unless the German MG nest is under systematic attack and the crew has to route away to avoid dying due to a double break.
 

Bob Holmstrom

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
1,572
Reaction score
120
Location
Palatine, IL
Country
llUnited States
Roughly 26 to 21 in infantry CVP. This CG pretty much had a straight perimeter down the L/M hexrow if I recall correctly. Thus it seems that it would have been harder for the Russian night assault to break into the German backfield and cause trouble as there were less "surface area" for the Russians to take advantage of and try to force a weak area in the Jerry defense.

Question. If my Germans shoots and kills 5 Russian 628s is that 10 CVP for the Germans or 10 CVP for the Russians. (or perhaps 10 CVP against the Russians) I'm wondering in all this CG reporting, people are bungling the correct use of CVP direction. Not that important of an issue but nice if I standardized what I report to what the rules say.

2 points for a 127 crew is harsh. Give me a full 467 squad anyday and I'll mourn the death of that 467 alot more than the 127 as a German commander. Considering that the MMG or HMG crews are usually stacked with a leader anyways, the self-ralling isn't that important unless the German MG nest is under systematic attack and the crew has to route away to avoid dying due to a double break.
As the Russians though, i love the 1-2-7 crews. They are only 1 FPP to set up HIP--as opposed to 2FPP for a half-squad and 3FPP for a full squad. 1x.50 cal, 2xHMG+3 crews and a leader is only 4 FPP to HIP. Love that.
 

Tork

Member
Joined
May 1, 2004
Messages
1,518
Reaction score
24
Location
Foxboro, MA
Country
llUnited States
As the Germans, my 127 crews promptly traded away their MGs for their sprinting shoes. Then they are the ones to CX/NAM into concealed Russian stacks...
 

=FC=Gorgon

Minister of Propaganda
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
1,124
Reaction score
384
Location
Ryalside
Country
llUnited States
Roughly 26 to 21 in infantry CVP. This CG pretty much had a straight perimeter down the L/M hexrow if I recall correctly. Thus it seems that it would have been harder for the Russian night assault to break into the German backfield and cause trouble as there were less "surface area" for the Russians to take advantage of and try to force a weak area in the Jerry defense.
True. We did not plan to try and break through and cause trouble in the backfield. We had small tactical goals instead and for the most part we accomplished them.

M
 

=FC=Gorgon

Minister of Propaganda
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
1,124
Reaction score
384
Location
Ryalside
Country
llUnited States
Aren't these guys good for using dc's also?
But are they assault engineers? If not, there would be a penalty. Otherwise I would agree since if broke, they could route and self-rally.
 
Last edited:

rdw5150

it's just a game
Joined
Feb 13, 2003
Messages
8,290
Reaction score
947
Location
Erie, PA
First name
Roger
Country
llUnited States
But are they assault engineers? If not, there would be a penalty. Otherwise I would agree since if broke, they could route and self-rally.
Hi!

I think its non elite that have a penalty with DCs. I think that crews are elite.

I like to use leaders as DC toters.

Peace

Roger
 

Paul S NJ

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2005
Messages
603
Reaction score
524
Location
New Jersey
Country
llUnited States
Infantry crews (the 228s) are elite. Vehicle crews (the 127s, and yes I know they come with the HMG/MMGs) are not elite, NRBH for the reference.

However being non-elite just adds 2 to the breakdown :clown: and doesn't impact the effects otherwise.

As the german, I like using 237s for DCs because most of the time the DC's are going against russians in +3 buildings. Therefore a DR of 10+ (which malfunctions the DC) probably won't accomplish anything anyway. YMMV.

Which russians though I see more DCs tossed into the street so having an elite unit do the tossing is nice :yummy:.

Paul
 

Eagle02

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
456
Reaction score
62
Location
MA
Country
llUnited States
Roughly 26 to 21 in infantry CVP. This CG pretty much had a straight perimeter down the L/M hexrow if I recall correctly. Thus it seems that it would have been harder for the Russian night assault to break into the German backfield and cause trouble as there were less "surface area" for the Russians to take advantage of and try to force a weak area in the Jerry defense.
I'm finally back online. Here's the latest perimeter from the night fight. Our objectives were rather limited altho' I was unhappy w/the northern wing of the attack. Damn sniper. I only took a few shots this scenario but that smoke SAN activation hurt. I did get hosed on my last CC engagements. A 4-4-7 should've been able to take out 2x4-6-7 (one CX) in HtH CC. Missed it by like 1. I was also a bit ambitious jumping a 5-4-8/10-2 w/a 4-4-7 and an NKVD but felt I had to try. Got bushed and killed. Cest le guerre, right?
 

Eagle02

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
456
Reaction score
62
Location
MA
Country
llUnited States
4.5 hours until 15D is kicked off! Here's the Russina INTEL assessment base dupon setup:

"German forces are massed for attack on 15D. The main effort is expected along the NORTH sector bt/ hex rows 1 and 16 with a supporting effort as far south as row 27. The forces arrayed in the main effort appear to be 2 reinforced companies. Expect a Pioneer pltn to enter from off board. Anticipated support includes at least 2 StuG pltns and Stukas with 2 OBA modules (at least 1x105mm). Expect hidden guns to support main effort as well.

Secondary effort appears to be just north of the Univermag b/t rows 28 and 37. Southern sector forces likely include a company +, no armor. 2 pltns appear to be in reserve behind the center sector."

We'll see...should be fun!
 

=FC=Gorgon

Minister of Propaganda
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
1,124
Reaction score
384
Location
Ryalside
Country
llUnited States
Attack to the North is right!! MikeP is trying to push 2 companies down rows 1-3!! I don't have my notes in front of me so we'll post more later with details. Quote of the night: "What did I just say about touching my counters?" :)

M
 

PZchala

Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2003
Messages
397
Reaction score
9
Location
USA
Country
llUnited States
and so is born our slogan... North Shore ASL..."don't touch my guy's" :D
 
Last edited:

Eagle02

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
456
Reaction score
62
Location
MA
Country
llUnited States
and so is born our slogan... North Shore ASL..."don't touch my guy's" :D
Every time I think of that it cracks me up.

To give everyone else a little context behind this...A hot German SAN was activated and I saw it was headed for a stack that contained 2 concealed units of mine. As I see Mike P reaching to make effects on my stack b/f random selection determined the actual target I said, "Don't touch my guys," but he did. Then I said, "What part of don't touch my guys did you not understand?" Freakin' hilarious.
 

Eagle02

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
456
Reaction score
62
Location
MA
Country
llUnited States
Well, no VotG tonight with the Sprague-ster/Gorgon up in NH on holiday. In order to get past the jones I put together a synopsis our of first three player turns for 15D that we played last week. Germans SAN 5/ELR 4, Russians SAN 5/ELR 3. I don't have the play by play and was too busy defending in the south to get too many of the details in the north sector but here goes:

G1 Germans attack across the board. They roll for maximum # of Stukas, 3(they got the rotating ones for 6 supt CPP) this turn. The Germans don't get smoke and Brian's OBA pulls a red chit. There is some PF (50mm mtrs) but generally the Germans use 2-4-7s to scout and draw fire. The P44 bldg defenses in the south fall apart pretty easily in 2 turns. The scripts just can't take the pressure and there are some dummies. They are only there to draw the Germans in...

In the center a HIP KV-1 in T30 fires up a mover in S30. Malfs BMG but breaks some other unit. I threw a DC from the 6-2-8 in S34 at an 8-3-8/DC/8-0 which wounds the ldr and CRs the HS.

In the north Gorgon gets some good shots and resids on PzChala. IIRC the 70mm gets a SR. Allin all, we keep the Germans from moving too fast.

R1 The Russians don't move but dish out a lot of PF when it doesn't seem apropriate to skulk. I believe the 76L in Pavlov's House X'd out some time in R1. Effects are not really wearing on the Germans at this point tho'. The game is still in flux. The Russians got really lucky on the Stuka attacks. The targets were the KV-1 (missed), a strafing run in the north (NE), and a missed sighting TC (can't remember details). 100mm OBA gets a SR in the south. A death star in P39.1 (3x4-6-7/HMGs and 9-2) pounds the Univermag. IIRC they kill and NKVD in the cellar of S39 and kill the crew of the 76* in Level 1. 50mm mtrs are NE again.

G2. Germans hose the Stuka DR. None forthcoming. I don;t recall effects of PF. They steel themselves to get up and move forward. In the south they finish clearing the P44 building that I had won in the night scenario. A StuG pltn moves in from off board in the south w/an AA HT. I needle Brian, "So Mike let you have AFVs again?" to which he replies..."You're such a d!%&" :laugh:

Generally, I don't recall having any tremendous D1F. We had a long rules tanget re the TEM for wide blvd/SH hexes. B/c this site was down and I couldn't cite Tom's ruling on my recollection that the TEM for AM is -1 (basically combining the -2 wide blvd and +1 SH TEMS) we split the difference at 0. IIRC I wd'd an 8-0 and CR'd a 4-6-7 in Q41 from that w/shots from the 76L in U44.1 and the 50mm mtr in V44. I think the "Don't touch my guy" incident happened about this time while we were on the horn w/ol' Fezziwig to get a ruling.

Then we had a another controversial event...I lit off the set DC in P43.C. Passed the TC no problem. I rolled 4,4 for effects causing a 4KIA. I placed it in the cellar based on something I read here on the forum. That evening we thought we needed an additional dr to determine whether it rubbled the location or not. Looking back at A23.71 and B24.11 that was not necesary. That location (cellar) is rubbled so everything above it will come crashing down too. We still need to roll for falling rubble for L1 and L2. However, that night, I thought I was hosed in that it was a 4KIA in a location w/no one, rubble wasn't created, and we only had flame creation. :bigfire:

So...I said "Oh well" to unconcealed a 4-5-8/.50 cal/9-2 in W31 with LOS to P39.1 deathstar and proceeded to roll a rof tear that unhinged that entire stack to nothing. :drink:

The loss of 3 sqds and a 9-2 only goads Dr. D to further aggression. He pushes forward in advance and jumps 3 or 4 of my stacks (on eof which we missed and did not roll CC yet - see T32). Lady luck is still with me and I do way better in CC than I should have. In S27 My 4-5-8 CRs a 4-6-7 leaving the HS and 10-2 in HtH melee. If I don't kill them all in CC next player turn that'll just be wrong! :nuts: My 6-2-8 in S34 also got lucky in CC. IIRC he killed an 8-3-8 but maybe it was smtg different.

The end result is that Russians are up this scenario in the death count. I think losses currently are:
German: 1.5x8-3-8, 1x5-4-8, 5x4-6-7, 1x4-4-7, 1x9-2
Russian: 1xNKVD, 1x4-4-7,5x4-2-6, 1xcrew,1x76L

Once we adjust the Set DC results there will be at least a 9-1/5-4-8/2-4-7 added to that, more if the rubbles crashes into another German stack. Plus the unfinished CC. It looks like it'll be a bloody scenario. Gorgon can probably fill in the details for the northern fight. Take a look at the attachments for the initial scenario positions and end G2 positions.
 

Tork

Member
Joined
May 1, 2004
Messages
1,518
Reaction score
24
Location
Foxboro, MA
Country
llUnited States
Enough 8FP+1 shots from the 50cal HMG to kill three squads and a 9-2?? Ouch!!

My first thought on the Germans using the top three rows to launch a company level assault was "NO!!!". The section is just too narrow and guys from the top of Pavlov's House can muzzle it effectively.

Shellhole/Boulevard AM: Boulevard -1, Shellhole +1. Net 0. It is not open ground so no FFMO.

Keep up the reports!
 

Eagle02

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
456
Reaction score
62
Location
MA
Country
llUnited States
Shellhole/Boulevard AM: Boulevard -1, Shellhole +1. Net 0. It is not open ground so no FFMO.

Keep up the reports!
Re the Shellhole/Boulevard AM: Check this string out http://forums.gamesquad.com/showthread.php?t=84777

Which says:


"Per Tom Morin in another thread that asjked this same question:
The shellholes and city square TEM are cumulative, so...

0 TEM if not moving or if assault moving using shellhole.

-1 if non-assault moving using the shellhole.

-2 if assault moving not using the shellhole (more applicable to non-shellhole city square- ya gotta be stupid to not claim the shellhole while AM)

-3 if non-assault moving not using shellhole

City Squares are just nasty business, no matter how you slice them.

Tom

I'll need to remember this when laPanzer tries to cross the square."

It's a tricky rule to get right. DD and I playtested Pavlov's House where I know this came up and it still became a major point of contention last Tr.
 

janusz.maxe

Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2004
Messages
537
Reaction score
17
Location
Gothenburg
Country
llSweden
note;if firing from 2lvl t said shellhole-blvd, at 1 hex range, not only do you double FP but also get FFMOfor net -2

janusz
 
Top