Vietnam war not WWII - but interesting. 20% of US troops in Vietnam were heroin addicts.

Eagle4ty

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I was a young marine marksmanship instructor (1983-84) and we had a totally squared away SSgt Vietnam vet, medals galore and I just amazed that he wasn't higher in pay grade. I asked him one day why and he said the same thing "I punched a 2nd Lt". It was a shame.
Yup. When we first met "Crazy George" we thought it was all BS until we had our dress uniform inspection; our (FNGs) jaws just dropped. Later, before I got my own tank, I was his gunner for a while and we became, and are, still fairly good friends tough today only through the 11th ACR Black Horse Association page. Unfortunately during the mid 70's the Army did their best to get rid of guys with strikes against them and even though he had again risen to rank of SSG, he just had too much against him and with 15+ years they denied him reenlistment. Still today I consider him one of the very best NCOs I've met in my career (crazy yes, but damn good).
 

Actionjick

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The above accounts expose a glaring deficiency in military procedures and training. Totally inadequate self defense instruction for junior officers!!β˜Ήβ˜ΉπŸ˜‰πŸ˜‰πŸ€£πŸ€£

A travesty that has hopefully been addressed and rectified! πŸ˜‰πŸ˜‰
 

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Yup. When we first met "Crazy George" we thought it was all BS until we had our dress uniform inspection; our (FNGs) jaws just dropped. Later, before I got my own tank, I was his gunner for a while and we became, and are, still fairly good friends tough today only through the 11th ACR Black Horse Association page. Unfortunately during the mid 70's the Army did their best to get rid of guys with strikes against them and even though he had again risen to rank of SSG, he just had too much against him and with 15+ years they denied him reenlistment. Still today I consider him one of the very best NCOs I've met in my career (crazy yes, but damn good).
That is crap.

I say that as a service member that was given a couple of chances to get 'my head in the game'. I had 2 NJP's in my 1st enlistment. The latter NJP I beat up an MP that should have led to a court martial but they just could not hide how bad the MP's beat me up in retaliation. My face was a mess and all of the bruises on my body from the kicks were unmistakable. I only had 8 days left on my enlistment so they stopped at Company level Office hours and then suspended all of the punishment. I got out.

I only stayed a civilian for 60 days and reenlisted. Less than 6 months into my 2nd enlistment I got a DUI and was awarded a free trip to a 6 week in-patient alcohol treatment plan but before I left I showed up drunk to the final day of a level 1 treatment program and received my fourth NJP.

The 6 week treatment program changed everything for me. I knew I had no other chances coming my way and I just did not want to be thrown out of the marines. I met my future wife and it took me 5 1/2 years to pull my head out of my butt but I did just that and they allowed me to stay for 30 years. In today's marine corps, if you receive even 1 NJP you will probably not be allowed to re-enlist.

It all comes down to numbers. In the early 80's no one was joining so they tolerated more and my one redeeming factor was I worked hard everyday. My SNCO's always had to say that I did work hard at all of my NJP's.

In the military today if you make E6, you are guaranteed to make 20 years. Unless you do something that would force a court martial on yourself.

P.S: I do not have any combat awards for bravery. I do not want anyone to think I am comparing myself to anyone that does. I just liked to drink and fight. :)
 
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von Marwitz

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This is a very intersting thread. Normally, you do not hear much about the things spoken about here as I reckon they tend to get swept beneath the rug by armies around the globe. The accounts of first hand observations here thus provide very rare insights.

Thank you for that, gentlemen.

von Marwitz
 

Actionjick

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P.S: I do not have any combat awards for bravery. I do not want anyone to think I am comparing myself to anyone that does. I just liked to drink and fight. :)
A very forthright and compelling account Sir!

Drinking and fighting traits that most Marines probably had bitd.

MPs or SPs that administered your knocks?

Is NJP non judicial punishment? Roughly equivalent to XOs mast?

No combat awards for me. Gedunk medal ( National Defense), Good Conduct medal. The latter only due to not getting caught! Honorable Discharge but not recommended for re-enlistment!?! Quite a distinction bitd when the military was desperate for warm bodies. πŸ™„πŸ™„

I wasn't a bad sailor per se, just had an attitude. πŸ˜”πŸ˜”


Let me amend that last statement . I'm sure that my Master Chief ( E 9 ) would dispute that and looking back I would have to say with good cause. Unfortunately for him l was only one of the two petty officers he had and he needed me. A point he made abundantly clear to the Captain when I was eligible for discharge five months early due to the ship getting transferred from the west coast to the east coast. I was denied early discharge. That didn't help our rather contentious relationship.β˜ΉπŸ˜‰
 
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TopT

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A very forthright and compelling account Sir!

Drinking and fighting traits that most Marines probably had bitd.

MPs or SPs that administered your knocks?

Is NJP non judicial punishment? Roughly equivalent to XOs mast?

No combat awards for me. Gedunk medal ( National Defense), Good Conduct medal. The latter only due to not getting caught! Honorable Discharge but not recommended for re-enlistment!?! Quite a distinction bitd when the military was desperate for warm bodies. πŸ™„πŸ™„

I wasn't a bad sailor per se, just had an attitude. πŸ˜”πŸ˜”
MP's delivered the a** kicking. I deserved it. So did the MP that I beat up. I told him not to put his hands on me but he just couldn't resist.

I believe that Non Judicial Punishment (NJP) is the same as XO's Mast (?) but I thought it was Captain's Mast. It might be a change from when you were in where the XO could hold Mast on a sailor. In the marines, if the CO is absent, the XO can hold Bn NJP.

I had 17 awards/ medals. Everything up to, but not including, a Bronze star. My personal favorite achievement was returning as the SgtMaj of a Bn that I had been an E5 in. When I was serving as the 1st Sgt/ Sgt Maj I rarely stayed in my office and was out touring the areas where my marines were, telling my 'war stories' and having the yound marines laughing their butts off.

On my 1st tour in Iraq, my marines wrote a song about me (about all my war stories) and they actually sang it. It was so funny. I still have that written song but I do not let my wife see it!

Good times :)
 

Actionjick

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MP's delivered the a** kicking. I deserved it. So did the MP that I beat up. I told him not to put his hands on me but he just couldn't resist.

I believe that Non Judicial Punishment (NJP) is the same as XO's Mast (?) but I thought it was Captain's Mast. It might be a change from when you were in where the XO could hold Mast on a sailor. In the marines, if the CO is absent, the XO can hold Bn NJP.

I had 17 awards/ medals. Everything up to, but not including, a Bronze star. My personal favorite achievement was returning as the SgtMaj of a Bn that I had been an E5 in. When I was serving as the 1st Sgt/ Sgt Maj I rarely stayed in my office and was out touring the areas where my marines were, telling my 'war stories' and having the yound marines laughing their butts off.

On my 1st tour in Iraq, my marines wrote a song about me (about all my war stories) and they actually sang it. It was so funny. I still have that written song but I do not let my wife see it!

Good times :)
Yes XOs mast one step below Captain's Mast. My personal experience with XOs mast was rather funny, the result of over work while in the shipyard. Took off one Sunday afternoon to spend the day with Actiondebbie, before she was the wife. Junior officer noticed I didn't come back from lunch and reported me. At the mast the XO asked why I was UA, I told him the truth and was assigned to my duty Chief for punishment. This resulted in cleaning the bilge in the boiler room! Lol it was what we were doing 18 hours a day as our regular work so not really a big deal. Btw did a stellar job cleaning the bilge. 😊🀣

Non snipes were given the punishment of having to work with us in the engineering spaces for 4 to 6 hours. They left and we were still there for another 12 hours! β˜ΉπŸ˜‰πŸ™„πŸ€”πŸ€£πŸ€£
 

Actionjick

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Yes XOs mast one step below Captain's Mast. My personal experience with XOs mast was rather funny, the result of over work while in the shipyard. Took off one Sunday afternoon to spend the day with Actiondebbie, before she was the wife. Junior officer noticed I didn't come back from lunch and reported me. At the mast the XO asked why I was UA, I told him the truth and was assigned to my duty Chief for punishment. This resulted in cleaning the bilge in the boiler room! Lol it was what we were doing 18 hours a day as our regular work so not really a big deal. Btw did a stellar job cleaning the bilge. 😊🀣

Non snipes were given the punishment of having to work with us in the engineering spaces for 4 to 6 hours. They left and we were still there for another 12 hours! β˜ΉπŸ˜‰πŸ™„πŸ€”πŸ€£πŸ€£
For clarification they worked the crap out of us in the shipyard. Rarely a day off. Sixteen to eighteen hour work days plus standing duty every third day where they worked you even more.

I'd get back to my apartment around eleven PM, spend the night with Debbie, go to bed around 4, then back to the ship by 6 AM. I don't think I have ever worked that much at any other time in my life. Strangely enough one of the most memorable and best times of my life. Only due to Debbie I am sure.πŸ₯°πŸ₯°
 

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Some Comments
1) In VN drug was pervasive in rear area units, not combat arms. NOTE: there is always drug use on some level everywhere. The military is just a snap shot of society. This is between the lines in the article, but not explicit.

2) The military in general did start to have serious issues in the late 70s in multiple areas. Military was rebuilt in 80's expansion under Reagan, with serious drug testing program. Zero tolerance on DUIs and drugs came around much later, and has gone in and out depending on state of military numbers. When they wanted to shed numbers, was zero tolerance. When the ranks couldnt be filled, would get UCMJ but not booted out.

3) Believe little to nothing from the BBC. This is sadly, unbelievably true. As a commander attacking into Iraq in 2003 we did get BBC on the radio. All BBC talked about was how the Iraqis were kicking our ass and we were losing. I started to wonder for a second, but then realized we had just rapidly advanced over 100 miles; I knew it was BS.
 

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Article 15, Letter of Reprimand, Letter of Admonishment and Control Roster. That's the Air Force's scale of punishment (at least in 1977 - 81).
First three are self-explanatory,, the last prevents an airman from getting promoted. Rack up enough of the first three, then AFM 39-12 comes
into play. {Discharge from the service}

If you can find a copy, try reading 'The Battles of Peace' by Michael Lanning.
 

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Right after I arrived inn Vietnam (1966-68), I saw a Marine under drug influance who could not control himself in combat.
I decided then that using ANY kind of mind-altering drug in a combat zone was a VERY stupid thing to do.
If a Marine/soldier cannot shoot straigh and fast, then he is only a easy target and has death as a partner.
Thus I never used drugs and still don't. Sometimes Combat can produce some good results.
 
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Actionjick

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Right after I arrived inn Vietnam (1966-68), I saw a Marine under drug influance who could not control himself in combat.
I decided then that using ANY kind of mind-altering drug in a combat zone was a VERY stupid thing to do.
If a Marine/soldier cannot shoot straigh and fast, then he is only a easy target and has death as a partner.
Thus I never used drugs and still don't. Sometimes Combat can produce some good results.
While I very much agree I believe there is historical precedent for warriors using psychedelic drugs before combat. I seem to recall a documentary about the Zulu fighting the British and some of their warriors using some form mind altering substance and infiltrating the British lines. On the whole doesn't seem to be a good idea though.πŸ™„

Viking berserkers possibly also.
 

pensatl1962

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Yes XOs mast one step below Captain's Mast. My personal experience with XOs mast was rather funny, the result of over work while in the shipyard. Took off one Sunday afternoon to spend the day with Actiondebbie, before she was the wife. Junior officer noticed I didn't come back from lunch and reported me. At the mast the XO asked why I was UA, I told him the truth and was assigned to my duty Chief for punishment. This resulted in cleaning the bilge in the boiler room! Lol it was what we were doing 18 hours a day as our regular work so not really a big deal. Btw did a stellar job cleaning the bilge. 😊🀣

Non snipes were given the punishment of having to work with us in the engineering spaces for 4 to 6 hours. They left and we were still there for another 12 hours! β˜ΉπŸ˜‰πŸ™„πŸ€”πŸ€£πŸ€£
I'm familiar with "XOI" (XO's Investigation - held prior to Captain's Mast to review facts and recommend dismissal or to proceed to Mast) but not XO Mast. IIRC the CO is the only individual empowered to impose punishment under NJP. Of course, the individual could always waive NJP and request court martial. This is Navy only - can't speak to other branches.
But it's been awhile...so memory may be a bit off.
 

Actionjick

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I'm familiar with "XOI" (XO's Investigation - held prior to Captain's Mast to review facts and recommend dismissal or to proceed to Mast) but not XO Mast. IIRC the CO is the only individual empowered to impose punishment under NJP. Of course, the individual could always waive NJP and request court martial. This is Navy only - can't speak to other branches.
But it's been awhile...so memory may be a bit off.
I was in 1971 to 1977 and IIRC it was referred to as XO's mast although that may have been informal. The XO could definitely dole out punishment but I don't believe it went on your record.
 

pensatl1962

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I was in 1971 to 1977 and IIRC it was referred to as XO's mast although that may have been informal. The XO could definitely dole out punishment but I don't believe it went on your record.
I came along a decade later. I was in an E-2C squadron and we had relatively few disciplinary problems - those we did seemed to occur after port visits for some reason...πŸ€” or training dets to exotic locations such as Fallon, NV, where there are an abundance of wholesome off-duty activities.
 

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I will get the terminology mixed up but here is how punishment can happen. BTW NJP is everything that isnt a courts-martial. The Navy does not have company level commanders so this is kind of the correlation for authority for punishment.
Ship Captain = Battalion Commander
Ship XO = Company Commander.

BC and CC can both dole out serious, on record punishment, BC much more. It became policy that all drug/DUI offenses went to BC.
CC has option (assuming this is what the XO can also do) to a quicker form of punishment (name eluding me right now). The Soldier has very little rights, cannot request CM, etc. but punishment max is very minimal. Cannot take pay/rank/etc, and I think max punishment is like 7 days extra duty. Way to quickly handle offenses, but also not put on the Soldiers permanent record. I think I used it only once in while in command.
There is also a similar way to do a courts-martial but IIRC max punishment is 30 days confined, and another officer presides. I charged 3 this way before deploying for combat in 2003.
 

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I will get the terminology mixed up but here is how punishment can happen. BTW NJP is everything that isnt a courts-martial. The Navy does not have company level commanders so this is kind of the correlation for authority for punishment.
Ship Captain = Battalion Commander
Ship XO = Company Commander.

BC and CC can both dole out serious, on record punishment, BC much more. It became policy that all drug/DUI offenses went to BC.
CC has option (assuming this is what the XO can also do) to a quicker form of punishment (name eluding me right now). The Soldier has very little rights, cannot request CM, etc. but punishment max is very minimal. Cannot take pay/rank/etc, and I think max punishment is like 7 days extra duty. Way to quickly handle offenses, but also not put on the Soldiers permanent record. I think I used it only once in while in command.
There is also a similar way to do a courts-martial but IIRC max punishment is 30 days confined, and another officer presides. I charged 3 this way before deploying for combat in 2003.
Ship Captain = God
Executive Officer = Archangel
Chief of the Boat = Lucifer
 
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