Vehicular Concealment Loss (Night)

[Paul John]

It is Night.
If a vehicle is in open ground and in the LOS of an enemy unit, normally it loses concealment immediately.
If the enemy unit is within NVR and is looking through a LOS hindrance is concealment lost?
If the enemy unit is within NVR and in a smoke hex, thus hindered, is concealment lost?
How about both if the vehicle is illuminated?
I am a bit confused by the notion that all terrain is concealment terrain at night...

 

[klasmalmstrom]

It is Night.

If the enemy unit is within NVR and is looking through a LOS hindrance is concealment lost?
If the enemy unit is within NVR and in a smoke hex, thus hindered, is concealment lost?
How about both if the vehicle is illuminated?

Yes, yes, and yes.

E1.31:
"...Vehicles/cavalry lose “?” at night just as if it were daytime. "

 

[jrv]

Yes, yes, and yes.

E1.31:
"...Vehicles/cavalry lose “?” at night just as if it were daytime. "

E1.2 "Neither the "?"/HIP units need set up in Concealment Terrain but lose "?"/HIP as if they were." If a vehicle has concealment as if in concealment terrain, it does not lose LOS in those circumstances.

JR

 

[klasmalmstrom]

E1.2 "Neither the "?"/HIP units need set up in Concealment Terrain but lose "?"/HIP as if they were." If a vehicle has concealment as if in concealment terrain, it does not lose LOS in those circumstances.

I am not sure that E1.2 applies to vehicles, since then only the Scenario Defender's vehicles would be affected. Would be a bit strange, but could very well be the case.

Still think E1.31 overrides E1.2 in this regard.

 

[jrv]

I am not sure that E1.2 applies to vehicles, since then only the Scenario Defender's vehicles would be affected. Would be a bit strange, but could very well be the case.

Still think E1.31 overrides E1.2 in this regard.

The problem is that E1.31 does not directly speak to what E1.2 changes. E1.31 does not change terrain from concealment terrain to non-concealment terrain after E1.2 has changed it to concealment terrain. Vehicles can still lost concealment as if daytime, but in daytime a vehicle would not lose concealment if in concealment terrain.

I believe that the rules have munged themselves, and E1.2 is thinking that all concealment counters are ½ inch counters. E1.2 should probably have left off the bit about losing concealment as if they were in concealment terrain. But that's just my speculation.

JR

 

[klasmalmstrom]

I believe that the rules have munged themselves, and E1.2 is thinking that all concealment counters are ½ inch counters. E1.2 should probably have left off the bit about losing concealment as if they were in concealment terrain. But that's just my speculation.

Could be.

 

[Paul John]

Sooooo....?????
You both make excellent arguments, shall we send it to the jury?

 

[jrv]

Sooooo....?????
You both make excellent arguments, shall we send it to the jury?

What do you mean, "we"?

JR

 

[Paul John]

What do you mean, "we"?

It is nice to have agreement on these things!

 

[jrv]

It is nice to have agreement on these things!

Nonsense. If we had agreement there would be nothing to submit.

JR

 

[Paul John]

If we had agreement there would be nothing to submit.

Now that is just fantasyland. Agreement that there is no agreement is my holy grail here.