Vehicle set up on a woods-road hex

[Juan SantaX]

Hi all

I read B.13.241

"A vehicle that sets up in a woods [errata included] hex does not place a TB counter (unless setting up in the woods portion of a woods-road hex) but need not take a Bog Check when exiting the hex without changing its VCA."

And B.13.31

A moving unit in a combination woods-road hex is not eligible for the +1 woods TEM during Defensive First Fire (and is subject to FFMO/Interdiction) if the LOS does not cross a green woods symbol and the moving unit entered the hex at the road movement rate regardless of the relative elevations of the firer/target. (See A4.132.) Otherwise, the normal woods TEM is in effect [EXC: a vehicle(s) in a woods-road hex is always considered on the road unless beneath a partial Trail Break counter].

So I think I can set up a AFV on a Woods-road under a partial TB, and get the woods TEM.

But what happens if I change CA to shot? Do I lose the TEM? Do I have to check bog? (I think NO, but with these rules, you never know)



And if I do a successful Motion attempt and change CA? Do I lose the TEM?

TIA

 

[Sparafucil3]

So I think I can set up a AFV on a Woods-road under a partial TB, and get the woods TEM.

But what happens if I change CA to shot? Do I lose the TEM? Do I have to check bog? (I think NO, but with these rules, you never know)

If the AFV is on a TB counter, it is in the Woods. You wouldn't lose the TEM, you would have to take a Bog check to change CA. If the AFV is Concealed, it wouldn't lose Concealment on a TB counter. I does lose Concealment if it is not on a TB counter since it would be Open Ground to the StuG.

And if I do a successful Motion attempt and change CA? Do I lose the TEM?

You can make a Motion Attempt. If you change CA, you would make a Bog check on TB, and wouldn't take on if the AFV is not on a TB. -- jim

 

[Stewart]

I think you answered your own question that contains the BOLD EXC.

 

[Juan SantaX]

Thank you all for your help !!

If the AFV is on a TB counter, it is in the Woods. You wouldn't lose the TEM, you would have to take a Bog check to change CA. If the AFV is Concealed, it wouldn't lose Concealment on a TB counter. I does lose Concealment if it is not on a TB counter since it would be Open Ground to the StuG.

Regarding the Bog Check (I knew I was going to be wrong, as usual....)

Does it matters, that in the CA change, the hexside traversed is a road one?
Does it matters, that in the CA change, the hexside traversed is TB one?

TIA

 

[ScottRomanowski]

I don't think it matters what the hexside traversed is, road or TB.

 

[ibncalb]

I don't think it matters what the hexside traversed is, road or TB.

I agree the TB is just to note the AFV is IN the woods portion.

 

[Juan SantaX]

Ok. The AFV is in the woods, and as it changes CA must take a Bog Check. And it doesn’t matter that the hexide transversed is a Road or a TB. It is in the wood, so it must take check….

But its a partial TB, that can become a full TB, I think. So its something more that a reminder counter.

 

[ibncalb]

Ok. The AFV is in the woods, and as it changes CA must take a Bog Check. And it doesn’t matter that the hexide transversed is a Road or a TB. It is in the wood, so it must take check….

But its a partial TB, that can become a full TB, I think. So its something more that a reminder counter.

I do not believe so. A partial TB is placed on a hexside upon entry. The rules here do not specify that the TB is placed thus.

If there was a partial TB placed it would be moved as soon as the AFV left the hex.

My oppo and I discussed this during KGP.

We looked for usage of the partial TB.

It's just a marker.

I thought we had asked a QA but I don't see it.

 

[Juan SantaX]

I do not believe so. A partial TB is placed on a hexside upon entry. The rules here do not specify that the TB is placed thus.

If there was a partial TB placed it would be moved as soon as the AFV left the hex.

My oppo and I discussed this during KGP.

We looked for usage of the partial TB.

It's just a marker.

I thought we had asked a QA but I don't see it.

But the rules I mentioned in my first post said its under a partial TB, unless I understand something badly.
Anyway, if you get an answer let me know. So far, the answers you gave me are good enough for me

Thanks everybody

 

[Bill Kohler]

I do not believe so. A partial TB is placed on a hexside upon entry. The rules here do not specify that the TB is placed thus.

If there was a partial TB placed it would be moved as soon as the AFV left the hex.

My oppo and I discussed this during KGP.

We looked for usage of the partial TB.

It's just a marker.

I thought we had asked a QA but I don't see it.

You might be looking for this (in both Scott's and Klas's compilations), which deals with non-fully-tracked vehicles:

B13.421 Contrary to B13.421, do you use a partial TB counter to indicate that a non-fully-tracked vehicle is in the woods portion of a woods-road hex?
A. No. If you need a memory aid, use a handy counter.

If no VCA is performed as part of the move, how many MPs are needed for a fully-tracked/non-fully-tracked vehicle in the woods portion of a woods-road hex to re-enter the road portion of that hex? Is a Bog Check necessary for the previous question?
A. There is no MP/MF cost to regain the road in that Location. No.

How many total MPs does it cost a vehicle in the woods portion of a woods-road hex to enter the next woods-road hex? (I assume 1 MP to start, 0 MPs to enter the road portion of its woodsroad hex, plus road movement cost to enter the next woods-road hex.)
A. Nothing extra.

A non-fully-tracked vehicle is on the road in a woods-road hex. It wishes to enter an ADJACENT, connected woods (non-road) hex. Does this require 2 turns to do so (one turn to enter the woods in the woods-road hex, and another turn to enter the ADJACENT woods hex)? Assuming no VCA changes, how many Bog Checks are needed?
A. Two turns. Two Bog Checks.

 

[Juan SantaX]

Thank you

You might be looking for this (in both Scott's and Klas's compilations), which deals with non-fully-tracked vehicles:

....

If no VCA is performed as part of the move, how many MPs are needed for a fully-tracked/non-fully-tracked vehicle in the woods portion of a woods-road hex to re-enter the road portion of that hex? Is a Bog Check necessary for the previous question?
A. There is no MP/MF cost to regain the road in that Location. No.

How many total MPs does it cost a vehicle in the woods portion of a woods-road hex to enter the next woods-road hex? (I assume 1 MP to start, 0 MPs to enter the road portion of its woodsroad hex, plus road movement cost to enter the next woods-road hex.)
A. Nothing extra.

....

Then here,



Do I understand right? I don´t need to take a Bog check as it cost nothing to regain the road portion in the woods-road, and then I can change VCA without Bog check.

Or that is sleazy, and I have to take a Bog, as I will do a CA change?

I love the game (at least when opponent rolls boxcars one after the other), but the rules are so difficult to understand...

 

[Bill Kohler]

If you're going to actually be moving, then (a) start for 1 MP while still in the woods portion of a woods-road hex, then (b) "go back onto the road" in your hex for free and expend your next MP(s) from there (e.g., change VCA/exit the hex) as a combined action (one that follows the separate Start MP).

But if you're notionally just nudging your vehicle into the road location of your hex, so that in some future phase you can change your VCA without Bog checks, well I wouldn't allow that. For better or worse, you're on the "trail break" counter: to get off from it, IMO there has to be some MPh movement that can be shot at.

BTW, I would align my TB counter with the reverse VCA of my vehicle, as if I had backed from the center of the hex into the woods and wanted to be prepared for a quick dash back onto the road.

 

[Juan SantaX]

Getting out a woods-Road hex set up hex without changing CA is free of Bog Check by the rules. So I was guessing Maybe I gte another hex side free of bog check.

its for SP 281. Need everything to survive….

 

[Bill Kohler]

To be precise, I've been talking about a non-tracked vehicle setting up in the woods portion of a woods-road hex and wanting to move back onto the road in that hex.

B13.421 says . . . A vehicle that sets up in a woods hex does not place a TB counter (unless setting up in the woods portion of a woods-road hex) but need not take a Bog Check when exiting the hex without changing its VCA.

I think this and the Perry Sez I quoted above might answer your question(s).

Once on the road, you move according to road movement rules (B3).

 

[Juan SantaX]

Thx