Does the hedge in F8 poking into G8 block Vehicle Bypass for an Armored Car around the building in G8? Thanks.
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I do not see where this rule is horrible to deal with, be it at tournaments or elsewhere.Actually this is a horrible rule to deal with in tournaments, nobody can easily tell if the counter-width clearance is met or not in some cases. Worse, some of the VASL maps don't agree precisely with real maps, if trying to apply it... ouch But there is probably no chance they will come up with something better.
Yes.Or only the one occupied?
I think the problem is a bit more complex than that. Checking VBM admissibility is more complex than checking LOS or just infantry bypass, and with often cluttered maps, it's really not a very practical thing to do, IMHO. Not to mention VASL - I heard there's a tool for VBM checking, I don't know how to find it though.Bottom line is this:
The problem lies neither with the rules, the mechanics and tools of determining LOS or clearance, nor the individual nature of the boards. The problem lies solely with people unable or unwilling to work with these.
I do not think that this claim can be substantiated.I think the problem is a bit more complex than that. Checking VBM admissibility is more complex than checking LOS or just infantry bypass, and with often cluttered maps, it's really not a very practical thing to do, IMHO.
You can be helped. It can be found at the most obivous place - the vasl.info site with all the other extensions:Not to mention VASL - I heard there's a tool for VBM checking, I don't know how to find it though.
I have pointed out a solution for you if you perceive this as a problem:(Checking whether one sees obstacle artwork on both sides of the thread is also much easier than checking whether a counter, positioned just so, touches obstacle artwork)
I think the rationalization given for taking a shot only to discover that the LOS is blocked is that the firing unit had a brief glance at the unit but not long enough to put down effective fire. Although LOS is traced to a specific spot, in reality the represented unit may be spread out over a wider area and even moving about within that area. Tracing LOS to a hex center (or whatever) is not a model but a game effect.I find the VB check far more logical and intuitive than a LOS check. When driving a car, I sometimes misjudge space and end up in reverse. When checking to see if I can see something, my eyes either confirm it or don't; I don't have to take a couple of rifle shots to tell if I can see it or not.
That is what I do too JR, just don't see the need for a tool or pulling a counter 99.99999% of the time... to me if it's coming down to a pixel and you want to say yes or no I'll let you decide yes or no...I usually try to point out to my opponent that a hexside is likely (or definitely) not bypassable by a vehicle when I think he is about to make such a move. That alerts him that I enforce the rule while giving him a chance to back out.
JR
Bypass with vehicles is actually a lot more difficult than most people think. For that reason having a gauge is useful. The gauge eliminates time wasted discussing the issue. If you enforce the rule as if infantry bypass (i.e. the obstacle has to touch the hexside), then you don't have an issue. If you try to follow the rule as written, having a gauge will avoid most disagreements.That is what I do too JR, just don't see the need for a tool or pulling a counter 99.99999% of the time... to me if it's coming down to a pixel and you want to say yes or no I'll let you decide yes or no...
Sorry to drag everyone back to the OP, but I want to be sure I understood Binchois' initial observation. Had the hedge on the hexside between F7 and F8 extended far enough into G8, it could block bypass of the building in G8. In effect, when the RB says a hedge (or wall) is an extension of a hexside, it means an extension in four directions. Or did I misunderstand Binchois?One weird and probably ill-considered thought...Imagine a situation where there is not enough room for Vehicular Bypass, but where there would be enough room for bypass if a hedge wasn't there (like the OP example with the building and hedge drawn even closer to each other). I wonder why the RB doesn't allow bypass for vehicles if they expend MPs for "crossing" the hedge (and possibly a bog check)?
Indeed, in such a modified version of the OP example, it would seem more natural to consider the bypassable hexsides of G8 to be clear and to consider the hedge an extension of just the F7/F8 hexside into G8. In other words, the only effect of the hedge on bypass would be to force the bypassing unit (trying to get from G7 to G9) to pay MPs for crossing the hedge.
...My apologies in advance for messing around with what the RB doesn't say! :readit: