VBM on Narrow Street

ds

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B31.11 states that VBM on a narrow street is "half the normal Bypass MP"

D2.3 states that VBM normal Bypass MP is "double that of the hex's non-obstacle terrain".

So is the street considered the non-obstacle terrain (making it 1/2 MP per hexside) or is it the Open Ground (making it 1 MP per hexside)?
 

Ole Boe

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The street is not the obstacle, and is thus part of the non-obstacle terrain, resulting in 1/2 MP per hexside.
 

Fred Ingram

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Maybe I have this wrong, but normal bypass movement is 2 (double 1 MP for open ground). Thius 1/2 of that for narrow streets would be 1 MP (unless unbuttoned where yoour 1/2 would be correct)

Isd this the correct interpretation ?
 

Ole Boe

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I think so. I assumed a CE AFV (and thus normally 1/2 MP per hex) in my answer.
 

Treadhead

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I would have to agree with Fred's interpretation.

It also appears that there is no CE benefit, otherwise it would have been mentioned IMO. [CE movement benefits only apply on a Road, after all.]

Regards,
Bruce Bakken
 

SamB

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It also appears that there is no CE benefit, otherwise it would have been mentioned IMO. [CE movement benefits only apply on a Road, after all.]
If the rules state that CE gives you 1/2 MP on a road, then the rules do NOT have to state the same thing for each new kind of road. Following your logic, you would not give CE road bonus movement to both paved and unpaved roads - because it was not specifically mentioned for each type of road?

You get to move at 1/2 MP on a road. A city-road is still a road....

"A road by any other name..."

All this is without looking at the rule book... YMMV

Sam
 

Treadhead

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SamB said:
If the rules state that CE gives you 1/2 MP on a road ...

...

You get to move at 1/2 MP on a road. A city-road is still a road....

Sam
I have no problem with what you're saying. However, there is some trouble with the mechanics of applying the 1/2 MP Road Rate to a Narrow Street.

NRBH, but I believe the 1/2 MP Road Rate is 1/2 MP for entering a hex while crossing a road hexside. VBM is a little bit different mechanic; you travel along the hexside, rather than cross it.

But perhaps the biggest stumbling block is how one would expend "half the normal Bypass MP". "Normally", there isn't a road involved. "Normally", the non-obstacle portion is Open Ground.

As Ole Boe said, the road is the non-obstacle terrain. What is the "normal Bypass MP" for a road, assuming a BU vehicle? Well?

There isn't one, because it's never been encountered before. Now, we know what the "normal" MP rate is for a Road... I guess that would be doubled for Bypass, but we have to extrapolate that.

The wording in B31.11 is utterly ridiculous. The entire rule talks about a road that exists along a hexside. To state to use the "half the normal Bypass MP"... which we then have to extract by reference to the VBM rules... and thus extrapolate that the "normal Bypass MP" would be 2 MP for a BU AFV... and then reduced to half that... and then deduced to be 1/2 MP for a CE AFV...

All of this could have been easily stated, and in fewer words, right in B31. The only "non-obstacle terrain" for a Narrow Street is... THE ROAD. So every movement reference on a Narrow Street should specifically address the road, and not cause one to circumambulate through two chapters to figure it out.

Bah. Another badly worded piece of effluvium. Whatever.

I think I just found my new most annoying rule.

Regards,
Bruce Bakken
 

Robin Reeve

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Note that a bypassing vehicle is still situated in (not IN) a definite hex, and not "straddling" a hexside between two hexes...
Besides, is road a "terrain"?
I do find the rule difficult to understand...
 

Ole Boe

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bebakken said:
I have no problem with what you're saying. However, there is some trouble with the mechanics of applying the 1/2 MP Road Rate to a Narrow Street.
I don't think there is any trouble...

NRBH, but I believe the 1/2 MP Road Rate is 1/2 MP for entering a hex while crossing a road hexside. VBM is a little bit different mechanic; you travel along the hexside, rather than cross it.
You are correct - the old road rules were written to distinguish movement on and off the road, and with normal roads, you must cross a road hexside to be on it. However, when using VBM along a narrow street, you're clearly "on" the road, as per B31.11: "A unit Bypassing along a Narrow Street hexside is always assumed to be on the road within its hex". To say that a vehicle that's clearly moving on the road cannot use road rate because it's not crossing a hexside is IMHO to read it far to literally, especially since an AFV will have crossed a hexside as part of the VBM many times.

But perhaps the biggest stumbling block is how one would expend "half the normal Bypass MP". "Normally", there isn't a road involved. "Normally", the non-obstacle portion is Open Ground.
I think you're stumbling in your own feet now. Its of course "half the normal Bypass MP" of that hexside not "half the normal Bypass MP" of hexes you normally bypass on other boards. Or are you saying that you can ignore the additional cost for smoke etc. as well, since there normally isn't smoke in the hexes you bypass? Clearly not.

As Ole Boe said, the road is the non-obstacle terrain. What is the "normal Bypass MP" for a road, assuming a BU vehicle? Well?

There isn't one, because it's never been encountered before. Now, we know what the "normal" MP rate is for a Road... I guess that would be doubled for Bypass, but we have to extrapolate that.
D2.4 says "The MP cost of VBM is double that of the hex's non-obstacle terrain (usually Open Ground)" and B3.41 "A vehicle may cross any road hexside at a cost of 1/2 MP ". Yes, you will have to calculate 2 * 1/2 * 1/2 by yourself. I don't see the problem.

The wording in B31.11 is utterly ridiculous. (snip...) So every movement reference on a Narrow Street should specifically address the road, and not cause one to circumambulate through two chapters to figure it out.
I see yopur point, like many other ASL rules, it could be written clearer if it had been written less general, but I guess they sticked with the 1/2 of normal to include things like smoke, elevation change, BU/CE etc.
 

Robin Reeve

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Thanks Ole Bole,
Things are clearer for me, now.
Besides, a CE AFV rolling along two narrow street hexsides already spends 2 MP (1/2 + VCA change 1 MP + 1/2), thus four times more than if crossing a hex via a "normal" road : simulating lower speed along a narrow road is already well represented - adding 1 more MP (i.e. 2 * 1/2) could seem too penalizing...
But I know this could look like a "realism" argument, so I just expressed that remark as it came... :wink:
 
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