VBM Entry on a half hex?

apbills

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My fall-back position would be that given the mapboard has no hexside depiction of L20:M21, and I could not determine if the obstacle touches said (non-depicted) hexside, A4.31 would be invoked. "Should there be any question whether a building or woods symbol touches a hexside, Bypass in that hex is blocked (i.e., is not allowed) along that hexside. "

Perry's answer could be interesting, or not. You never know.
 

bendizoid

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Place a random unused map adjacent (A2.5), refer to A 2.3 which talks about 1/2 hexes. Measure for an obstacle and enter. Infantry can enter in bypass, why not AFVs?
 

Sean Deller

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My fall-back position would be that given the mapboard has no hexside depiction of L20:M21, and I could not determine if the obstacle touches said (non-depicted) hexside, A4.31 would be invoked. "Should there be any question whether a building or woods symbol touches a hexside, Bypass in that hex is blocked (i.e., is not allowed) along that hexside. "
Fair enough, but I think this is easily solved by expanding the A2.6 "mirror image" rule to include board entry.
 

apbills

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Place a random unused map adjacent (A2.5), refer to A 2.3 which talks about 1/2 hexes. Measure for an obstacle and enter. Infantry can enter in bypass, why not AFVs?
Per A2.51 ..."All terrain on an offboard setup map is considered Open Ground except for off-map half-hexes which are butted against a half-hex of some other terrain type and hex rows Y, Q, and I which are road hexes if the board is butted lengthwise. "

So, in our situation, we have half-hexes butted against a woods half-hex, so per the underlined A2.51 exception, the terrain in that offboard setup map half-hex is NOT considered Open Ground.

A2.3 tells us "In the rare instance in which an Open Ground half-hex is butted together with another terrain type half-hex, the combined hex is considered that non-Open Ground terrain type." yet, we just were told in A2.5 that that half-hex of the offboard setup map is NOT Open Ground.

A2.51 does not state all terrain is open ground, including the half-hex portions butted against the onboard map. It does not state that all hexes/half-hexes on the offboard setup map are considered Open Ground terrain. Yet A2.3 is specific in its language regarding what the terrain type of the hex is considered if in those rare instances you get an Open Ground half-hex with another terrain type. Not so rare given every scenario with forces coming onboard across the long side of the board will potentially have the half-hex issue.

I don't think anyone actually thought about it. It would have been easy to state "All hexes on an offboard setup map are considered to be Open Ground. See A2.3 for off-map half-hexes which are butted against a half-hex of some other terrain type."
 

apbills

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Infantry can enter in bypass, why not AFVs?
Infantry can enter via bypass on a mapboard hex, but it is the same situation for infantry as for AFVs in this question. Is that off-map portion of a half-hex a valid hexside for using bypass? If it is, is it because one of the vertices is partly (not fully) on the map?

Can a vehicle use reverse movement from M20 into stationary bypass on the L20:M21 hexside from on-board, and still be considered onboard? How is that different (other than the facing and MP) from moving forward from M20 to bypass across the same hexside?
 

bendizoid

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Infantry can enter via bypass on a mapboard hex, but it is the same situation for infantry as for AFVs in this question. Is that off-map portion of a half-hex a valid hexside for using bypass? If it is, is it because one of the vertices is partly (not fully) on the map?

Can a vehicle use reverse movement from M20 into stationary bypass on the L20:M21 hexside from on-board, and still be considered onboard? How is that different (other than the facing and MP) from moving forward from M20 to bypass across the same hexside?
Vehicles in reverse still maintain the frontal CAFP, so it would be offboard, in the open bypass part of a ‘1/2 woods hex’ (A2.3), on the random abutted board.
 
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Eagle4ty

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I believe yes, yes & yes as the vertex of the on-board L20-M20 hexside at L20-M20-(off-board) M21 is still part of that on-board hex L20 and is the CAFP of the off-board placed AFV and therefore a LOS should exist to that vertex as being on-board {See definition of hexside in the INDEX}. Also essentially one has entered L20 as per the definition of Hex as given in the INDEX as long as the CAFP can be considered on-board.
 

Matt Book

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I have always played it you can enter using Infantry/Vehicle Bypass on vertices of desiginated entry area. I would play it you could enter M20 after entering bypass cost at the L20/M20/M21 vertice. You could enter this vertice from M21 (open ground) or from L20 at bypass cost entry. The difference is using VBM from M21 you could only be shot at L19/L20/M20 vertice, where as paying offboard bypass cost in L20 you get hit at L20/M20/M21 when you enter. Infantry Bypass you get nailed at all vertices traversed, plus the bisected hexisde point in L20.
 

bendizoid

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I have always played it you can enter using Infantry/Vehicle Bypass on vertices of desiginated entry area. I would play it you could enter M20 after entering bypass cost at the L20/M20/M21 vertice. You could enter this vertice from M21 (open ground) or from L20 at bypass cost entry. The difference is using VBM from M21 you could only be shot at L19/L20/M20 vertice, where as paying offboard bypass cost in L20 you get hit at L20/M20/M21 when you enter. Infantry Bypass you get nailed at all vertices traversed, plus the bisected hexisde point in L20.
You enter bypass into L20 from L21
 

Larry

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A2.51:
All terrain on an offboard setup map is considered Open Ground
except for off-map half-hexes which are butted against a half-hex of some
other terrain type and hex rows Y, Q, and I which are road hexes if the board
is butted lengthwise.
The mirror concept is ruled out. The unseen half-hex is woods but how that woods configures is unknown.
 

Larry

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It's OG "except for off-map half-hexes which are butted against a half-hex of some
other terrain type." The except means it isn't OG on the unseen part of the hex. Nor does the rule say it is mirrored.
 
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