VBM and hedges

[Anonymous]

Gents,

I wish to bypass a woods hex with my AC. Here is my question. Hex "A" is a woods hex. There is a hedge between Hex "A" and Hex "B" (the hexside that I am bypassing).

There is plenty of room between hedge and woods depiction. My opponent beleives that I must pay hedge cost in bypass and also take bog check. I say I am between hedge (hexspine) and woods (in hex terrain) and do not have to take bog check - that I am not crossing the hedge (hexspine) at all.

Who is correct? Have I been playing this wrong all these years?

Curtis

 

[Robin Reeve]

If the hedge is only on the hexside of your VBM (i.e. not going on along the hexside separating the hex you exited and the hex you are entering in VBM), and you hadn't to cross it, you don't pay hedge cost nor make bog DRM.
Good news : common sense and rules seem to be on your side ! :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

If the hedge is only on the hexside of your VBM (i.e. not going on along the hexside separating the hex you exited and the hex you are entering in VBM), and you hadn't to cross it, you don't pay hedge cost nor make bog DRM.
Good news : common sense and rules seem to be on your side !

I'm still not clear on this, (I'm the person playing against Curtis), so let me give the the exact hexes in question. Board 43, his AC starts in AA9, He bypasses the woods in Z8 along the Z7-Z8-AA9 hexside, which is a hedge. My contention is that since bypass is traced along hexsides, if one of the hexsides is a hedge then hedge mp cost has to be paid. If the AC stopped in bypass it would be sitting on the hexside with the hedge. I realize that in actuality a vehicle could move thru the open ground between the hedge and the woods, but as we know, reality and ASL rules sometimes don't coincide.

David

 

[Robin Reeve]

As I understand the rules, VBM is only possible if there is sufficient space (i.e. the thickness of a counter) between the hedge (or wall) and the obstacle - they are quite clear about this.
If I understand the move you are describing* , the vehicle moves from 43AA9 to Z8 (CAFP being Z7-Z8-AA8). The hexside Z8-AA8 is a hedge.
But the Vehicle does not cross any hedge to justifiy neither extra MP expenditure neither a Bog check (if hexside Z8-AA9 were a hedge, it would necessitate extra MP and Bog check).

Hopes this helps...

* I don't see how a hexside can be described by three hex coordinates, as it separates only two hexes... :?

 

[Robin Reeve]

Added note : bypass always happens in one of the two hexes bypassed, and not on the hexside itself.
The Vehicle that bypasses the Z8 wood is in Z8 : it is not rolling on the hedge...

If two adjacent hexes contain obstacles, one could imagine (if other conditions allow) two vehicles straggling the same hexside, but being considered to be each in one of the adjacent hexes (and firing at one another at one hex [not zero] distance and not being overstacked...

I believe the idea that the vehicle is sitting on the hexside may be the source of your confusion...

 

[Jazz]

If the hedge is only on the hexside of your VBM (i.e. not going on along the hexside separating the hex you exited and the hex you are entering in VBM), and you hadn't to cross it, you don't pay hedge cost nor make bog DRM.
Good news : common sense and rules seem to be on your side !

I'm still not clear on this, (I'm the person playing against Curtis), so let me give the the exact hexes in question. Board 43, his AC starts in AA9, He bypasses the woods in Z8 along the Z7-Z8-AA9 hexside, which is a hedge. My contention is that since bypass is traced along hexsides, if one of the hexsides is a hedge then hedge mp cost has to be paid. If the AC stopped in bypass it would be sitting on the hexside with the hedge. I realize that in actuality a vehicle could move thru the open ground between the hedge and the woods, but as we know, reality and ASL rules sometimes don't coincide.

David

Don't have a rulebook handy, but the only way I've seen it played is he is on one side or the other of the hedge, depending on just which hex he is bypassing. Hence, he is does not pay an penalty associated with the hex. Please note, he is NOT "on the hexside". He is in one hex or the other. Don't be fooled as a lot of folks are pretty cavalier about declaring just which hex they are bypassing. The hex sides & vertices themselves are used as a mechanism for LOS determination.

He would have to suffer any penalty associated with the hedge if he was to cross the hedge hex side to exit the hex, including if he wants to go into bypass into the hex formed by the hedge..... actually, I'd need a diagram to truly explain that.

 

[Anonymous]

VBM & Hedges

Thanks for the responses. Since apparently the ASL rule favors reality, it looks like those armored cars are going to be rolling between the hedge and the woods instead of smashing their way along the hedge and possibly bogging as i had hoped. .

David

 

[Robin Reeve]

David, I don't think a vehicle in bypass can directly enter the adjacent hex which is on the other side of the hexside it is "straggling" (in our example : a direct move from 43Z8 (bypass CAFP Z7-Z8-AA8 to AA8).
I had asked a question about that some years ago, and was given the present above reply.
In any case, the rules don't tell what sort of VCA change MP cost would have to be expended to do that...
So I presume the Vehicle must first exit the hex in which it is bypassing (Z8) to another hex (e.g. Z7) adjacent to the hex sharing hexside (AA8) , turn around and enter the "ex-adjacent" one.

 

[Robin Reeve]

That "smiley" is due to writing 8 and ) next one to another...
Read (Z8 )