VASLeague 2018, general discussion

Discussion in 'ASL Events' started by ecz, Nov 19, 2017.

  1. WuWei

    WuWei Active Member

    520
    Sep 28, 2014
    Germany
    If your main goal is to have a pool of reliable players in the regional leagues, you could stop relegation the worst players to the SLL, and only relegate those who forfeit games. You could also allow any returning players who took a pause for a year or two (but didn't forfeit any games while they where active in the league) to return to the regional leagues directly. You would only need to adjust the number of rounds depending on the number of players each season.
     
  2. ecz

    ecz Partisan Captain

    Aug 31, 2003
    Italy
    this would create a VASLeague like NBA, where no relegation exist. I do not think I can close the door in the face of those players that wish reach the higher level of play in the TOP VASLeague, clearing their path from the bottom level. Instead new players should wait for /hope there are enough forfeits to let them enter at the place of the cancelled players. This, in my opinion, diminishes the popularity of VASLeague. A soft turnover must be always possible to keep attractive VASLeague
     
  3. ecz

    ecz Partisan Captain

    Aug 31, 2003
    Italy
    the lower level (The Second Line League) is at the edge of VASLeague. The current format diminishes dramatically forfeits in the Regional Leagues as expected.
    Forfeits have been 10,5 as average per year in 2017 and 2016, while they were 39,5 as average per year in 2015 and 2014 when Second Line League was still not existent.
    True, the "inconstant players" are still here, and now are just relegated in the lower level, and they are a lot, but at least they do not occupy space in the first two levels (= more fun for the best/constant players).
    Besides, a crowed Second Line League -where Time Zone does not count - forges better VASL players ... if they survives.
    My only concern is about the fact that a Second Line League with a low quality of players (with 50 + players is unavoidable that quality drops) could discourage the few who should deserve a better treatment.

    Probably adding a relegation per Regional League (from two to three) is the best way to handle the problem. At least 9 players/per year gain the pass to the higher level.
     
  4. boylermaker

    boylermaker Active Member

    127
    Jan 22, 2012
    Massachusetts
    I like WuWei's idea of ending relegation from regional league to SLL. If you keep relegation between the top and regional leagues, then you have the whole, fun "climb the ladder" experience intact, but you give the most people a chance to experience life in the regular, cancel-free leagues, once they have demonstrated that they are being serious about it.

    As somebody in a regional league, I wouldn't mind expanding to funny league sizes to accommodate all of the non-cancelled SLL players. So the worst case scenario would be something like 27 Europe/Asia, 19 EUSA, 13 WUSA, or whatever, I don't think that would bother me. I'd much rather have a bye every once an a while than have to worry about returning the SLL, which as you mention is a bit less fun, not because of the quality of play, but because of the frequency of cancellations.
     
  5. ecz

    ecz Partisan Captain

    Aug 31, 2003
    Italy
    my only concern, as said, is that with a too crowed Second Line League I risk to keep off the fun even good/excellent players without a real reson. It could happen with 52+ players (as currently in the SLL) that there are 4 or more players undefeated after 5 rounds, and could happen that someone of them miss the promotion just because the buholz coefficient says no. Unfair.
    A little change that avoids unnecessary pain, is to grant to everyone finishing 5-0 to gain promotion, not counting his final position. This way at least everyone attending is sure that if he makes a perfect tournament he will leave the SLL. This implies that the following year one Regional League could have more than 16 players to accomodate the extra player(s) but this is passable.
     
    boylermaker likes this.
  6. igycrctl

    igycrctl Member

    65
    Jun 3, 2017
    Couldn’t you add a regional league? Obviously I don’t have the time zone info on the 2ll, but with that you could determine where the most players are and create a new regional league. This would allow more players to move up from the 2ll.
     
  7. ecz

    ecz Partisan Captain

    Aug 31, 2003
    Italy
    I could also increase the number of players for each Regional league, proportionally. But this brings us back to the starting point. I have reduced from 20 to 16, and then to 12 (the West-Central League) the Regional leagues because I have seen that 32 players in the TOP and 56 players shared in three regional leagues (total 88) are too many for our online community.
    We do not have 88 competitive (VASL) players that year after year, for 5 times/year, contact the opponent and arrange the playing even if there is no chance to win the tourney. The average number of forfeits says everything. Thus two years ago I have reduced the number of players in each regional league to reflect the real number of the base. As I outlined above the average of forfeits per year has suddenly dropped from 39,5 to 10,5 that is acceptable. If I create a brand new regional league, or if I slightly increase the number of players in each, I will have again a not acceptably high number of forfeits.
    I want to protect the fun of players in the TOP VASLeague and in the Regional leagues (in my opinion no forfeit = maximum fun) , but at the same time I want leave a chance for new players to clear their path to the title starting from the Second Line League. This chance must be real and not theoretical.
     
  8. WuWei

    WuWei Active Member

    520
    Sep 28, 2014
    Germany
    I still don't understand how relegating reliable players without any forfeits from the regional league to the SLL help you with your goal...
     
  9. mgmasl

    mgmasl Active Member

    Feb 26, 2006
    Cadiz
    I´ve played SLL twice and I think I will not try a third time. IMHO problems with time zones and game skill are excesively important, and accordying to my experience you need lot of luck to enjoy the games you need to win to reach a higher level league.. I mean I have to consider games as profesional jobs to get a good result forgetting anything about the enjoyment of a good ASL game. Something I personally can´t afford because of the few number of games I will surely play next year.
    I think an effort to get leagues with similar time_zones/game_skill even in SLL would be fantastic but I suppose is not posible or excesively complex to be considered a valid effort. ITOH I know perfectly the big effort done by Enrico to have this league on and so I´ve never commented anything about.. I mean he´s doing a fantastic unpayable job for those playing the big leagues consuming a lot of his family time. To know more and more players are entering SLL is surely doing this pre-selection more necessary.

    I prefer by now trying to play good scenarios vs known players, specially if they´re interested in playing scenarios for future live tournaments.

    Anyway, family and job keep me off the VASL arena by now.
     
    ecz likes this.

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