VASLeague 2015 General Discussion

[ecz]

hello,
it's time to join VASLeague 2015.

A few changes are scheduled in the format for 2016, thus next season, in preparation for the changes, has a new relegation mechanims for all "non -TOP" VASLeagues.
Starting with the 2016 season the bottom of the piramid will be the new Second Line League . All players not ending the season 2015 by cancellation , all players joining for the first time (or re-joining ) in 2016, and all players occupying the spots below #16 in any of the "non -TOP" leagues will move to the new-born Second Line League. It's still possible re-gain a superior League for the six best placed players of this new, non Regional, worldwide League.

Here are the rules for 2015. Pay attention to the new rules, in bold.

VASLeague 2015 is an individual ASL tourney, now at its 9th edition, played mainly via internet with the following rules:
1. General Rules
1.1 The Swiss System is used for pairings and classification.
1.12 There are 5 rounds of 2 months of duration each, beginning on 1st January 2015; round two begins on 1st March, round 3 begins on 1st May and so on…
1.2 If any league has less than 17 players there are only four rounds. The fourth and last round, in this case, is a four-months round, starting on 1 July and ending on the 31 October.
1.21 Three points are awarded for a victory and one point for a draw.
1.3 Tiebreaker: If two or more players finish the league with the same number of points, the following rules will be applied for determination of final ranking:
1.3 a) Result of the game played by the players with the same number of points (NA if there are > 2 players with the same number of points);
1.3 b) Best opponents met not counting the worst and the best ( known as : Winged Buholz tiebreaker);
1.3 c) Number of the round of the first game lost (the later the better);
1.3 d) A random drawing will be made.

2. No PbeM
2.1 The matches will be played on the VASL server live or face-to-face by default.
2.12 a PBeM game is allowed only if both players agree. IMPORTANT NOTE: Please don’t subscribe if you already know you cannot guarantee in the two months limit (60 days) enough time to play even a small or medium sized ASL scenario live on VASL !
2.13 Delayed Notes
2.131 Players are suggested to extensively use the “delayed” notes VASL tool to record HIPs, Fortifications, Covered Arcs, Spotters, CE status, Pre-Registered hexes, and so on.
2.14 Web Dice

2.140 The use of the *Random.org* or the *Chatterplus* extension dicebot is mandatory. It can be downloaded from the Game Squad Forum (but I'll send the file to every player requesting it) and added in the VASL extension folder like any ordinary extension. The old default dicebot coming with VASL can be used only if both players agree. Please note that the Random.org dicebot and *Chatterplus* extension are implemented in any recent VASL version and they are today the normal standard.
[/B]
2.141 The use of real dice – instead of a dicebot – rolled in front of a web cam is allowed. Note that is perfectly possible for one player to use real dice and for the other to use a dicebot.
2.2 Scenarios and sides are freely chosen by the players, balances included. Any scenario may be chosen. It is strongly recommended to choose scenarios according to the time and the experience both players have. If no agreement is reached the TD will contact both players and choose the scenario drawing the sides.
2.22 Players are not allowed to play twice the same scenario during the tournament, even switching sides.
2.23 If a scenario will not be finished by the 2 months period and the players are unable to decide an outcome (a winning or a draw), the TD will determine the final result helped by two judges (see below). If the number of turns played is less than half the total scenario turns (FRU) the game is lost for both players.
2.3 Players are kindly requested to find an agreement on the result of the game and ask for the judge decision only if any agreement is impossible.
2.4 The player who is mainly responsible for the missed game or for a delay that makes impossible to end the scenario in time should admit his fault giving the win to the opponent.
2.5 If the players are unable to agree on who is the (main) responsible, both loses the game unless the TD has a clear evidence that a player is the main responsible.
2.6 Please note that no investigation is possible on the reasons of the delay even if asked or requested to the TD.
2.7 The deadline is not flexible. No game is allowed beyond the deadline scheduled for the round. This applies also in the last round.

3. TD and Judges
3.1 The TD is Enrico Catanzaro (ecz on the Gamesquad forum).
3.2 There is a “Judge Crew” of volunteers of proved VASL/ASL experience that will decide the scenarios not ended by the deadline. The Crew is formed by notable and experienced players not involved in the same League of the game under adjudication.
3.3 Judges should be able to give their vote in no more than 36 hours seeing the last VASL screenshot position of the game.
3.31 Players are allowed to send the Judges a brief comment to explain their plans for the endgame.
3.32 The TD will chose the two Judges among the Judge Crew trying to rotate the Judges to not overwhelm of work anyone.
3.33 If a game has been judged in opposite ways by the two Judges, then the TD will decide.

4. Subscription and format
4.1 For next season, 32 players have conquered or maintained the right to play in the TOP VASLeague ; they will participate in the TOP VASLeague 2015 and will play for the final prize. All other players form the other non-TOP Leagues and the Second Line League (see below).
4.2 Every non-TOP League has more or less the same number players depending of the overall number of players.
4.21 The TD will try to form the non TOP Leagues according the preferences of the players and their respective Time Zones to make easy the live play.
4.22 All players not cancelled in 2015 (i.e. in play after the last round of past season) are automatically signed for 2016; there is no need of a formal subscription.
4.223 Players relegated from the TOP VASLeague should indicate their respective Time Zones.
4.224 In 2015 there are three "non -TOP" leagues: European/Oceanian League (European + Australian/Oceanian Players) -US/Can East League (East Coast players) -US/Can West League (Central and West Coast players).
4.3 The registration starts November 1st and closes on December 30th, 2014. On December 31st, 2014 there will be a draw for the first round and from January 1st, 2015 the matches may start.
4.4 With the registration all players accept these rules and give automatically to the TD the permission to send and share their email addresses to all other VASLeaguers for tournament purpose. If you want keep private your address please create an “ad hoc” email for the tournament.

5. Promotion and relegation for 2015
5.1 In 2015 the TOP VASLeague has 32 players. This is the number of players scheduled also for 2016 season. At the end of the 2015 season the last six players of the TOP VASLeague table will be relegated to the other non-TOP leagues and equally divided among them in the most logical way according Time Zones of : European/Oceanian League, East League and West Central League. Conversely the best six players of the said leagues (two from each one) will be promoted in the TOP VASLeague.
5.11 Starting from 2016 European/Oceanian League, East League and West Central League will have 16 players each and thus four rounds only. So players cancelled in 2015, or in excess because occupying the spots below the 16th in any of the above leagues will play in 2016 in the new Second Line League (see below).
5.112 More promotions are allowed if there are more than six players leaving the TOP VASLeague (for example for cancellation). The extra promotions are shared equally among the other leagues. Extra-promoted players are selected using rule 1.3.

5.12 No promotion is mandatory. Any player could decide to stay in his current league rather than be promoted to the TOP VASLeague giving automatically the player below him in the table his right. In fact non -TOP leagues are “Regional/Local” and gather players with a close Time Zone (Ex: Australian/ Oceanian Players are added in the European League), while the TOP VASLeague gathers the better players from all the world no matter their Time Zone.
5.3 New players, as well as those cancelled due to (multiple) forfeits, (see below) will begin, or restart, from the new Second Line League ( see below) starting in 2016.
5.4 Second Line League. To have less forfeit and an higher percentage of game played, all non-TOP leagues will have starting from 2016, as said above, only 16 players. So all new players signing in 2016, all players cancelled in 2015 and returning in 2016 or and classified below the 16th spot in any non -TOP League, will form the Second Line League. This new League could have any number of players and will gather players from all the Time Zones. At the end of each season the best two players picked from the three time zones matching the non-TOP Leagues, will gain the promotion to the respective non-TOP League. More promotions are possible if there are more than two players relegated and/or cancelled in a superior League or, for whatever reason, there are more empty spots to fill.


The Scheme for VASLeague in 2016 and following years:
TOP VASLeague (32 players, coming from all TZs); the winner is the TOP VASL player of the year! Six players at the bottom of the table and/or cancelled are relegated to
European/Oceanian League ( 16 players from Europe & Oceania TZs) the best two players are promoted to the TOP VASLeague; two players at the bottom and/or those cancelled are relegated to the Second Line League
or
East League (16 players from Canada and US East TZ) the best two players are promoted to the TOP VASLeague; two players at the bottom and/or those cancelled are relegated to the Second Line League
or
West -Central League ( 16 players from Canada and US Central and West TZ) the best two players are promoted to the TOP VASLeague; the two players at the bottom and/or those cancelled are relegated to the Second Line League.
at a level below there is the:
Second Line League (gathers any number of players from any TZ: all new players, all cancelled players that subscribe again, all players relegated from European, East, or West-Central League). The best two players picked from any TZ are promoted to one League above. More promotions are possible to fill a gap in any of the three above Leagues if two promotions are not enough to create league of 16.

6. Abandoning
6.1 We aim to have a VASLeague full of *dedicated players*. Thus no player can win any League or simply be promoted to an higher level if has even a single forfeit in any of the rounds.
6.2 If a player forfeits two matches he is immediately cancelled from that league and relegated at the bottom of his League. The next year that player will start from the Second Line League (see below) if he will register again.
6.2.1 A forfeited game is a game not played at all. An interrupted game or a game not finished in time as well an early resign after the game has just started is treated simply as a lost game.
6.3. The last active player of a table, if odd for a previous cancellation, gains an automatic “Bye” against a “dummy” player. Nobody in a tourney can gain more than one “Bye”.
6.4 Past experience shows that people forfeiting their very first round usually forfeits another round thus becoming cancelled from the tournament. For this reason, a player who forfeits his FIRST round is immediately cancelled (no reason to wait a second forfeit that happens 95% of the time). Exception: A single forfeit in any round in the Second Line League ALWAYS causes cancellation.

6.5 We hope that in a couple of years all the best/more motivated and constant players of the world will occupy the Top VASLeague or the other non TOP leagues, while the new Second Line League works as a filter for those that aim to gain access to the higher level, but must first pass a difficult stage beating VASL players of any kind, skill level, and VASL-attitude/experience, so showing a (eventually renewed) constant interest toward this side of the hobby.
7. Prizes
7.1 For 2015 the First Prize for winning the Top VASLeague is a box of ” Hakkaa Päälle ” or “something else of similar value if HP is still unavailable. The First Prize for each non-TOP League is a copy of the latest Journal. Everyone may add new prizes for specific spots or achievements in the various leagues.
7.2 Registration is free of charge.
Please write to VASLeague@gmail.com for questions and clarifications.
Have fun!
The VASLeague TD, November 2014

 

[Sparafucil3]

Can you add something to explain the "buholtz tiebreaker". I don't see it covered anywhere in your rules, here or on the site. -- jim

I think you are using something like this. If so, how many points does a Dummy Player contribute? How are players scores affected when people are dropped from the tables? Just curious.

 

[ecz]

Can you add something to explain the "buholtz tiebreaker". I don't see it covered anywhere in your rules, here or on the site. -- jim

yes sure, and with the help of Wikipedia.

It is taken from Chess, it breaks ties between players with the same number of wins in a Swiss Style tournament (the usual Chess Style tournament).

Each player's Buchholz score is calculated by adding the raw scores of each opponent and the sum of the opponent's raw score is used to break ties.

The major criticism of this system is that tie-break scores can be distorted by the set of opponents that each player plays (especially in early rounds). To avoid this problem a version of Buchholz, the Median-Buchholz System is sometimes used. In the Median-Buchholz System the best and worst scores of a player's opponents are discarded, and the remaining scores summed.

As I agree with this criticism, We use the Median-Buchholz System also known as "Winged-Buchholz System" ( Winged because "wings" are taken and cut off).

hope this helps.

 

[Sparafucil3]

yes sure, and with the help of Wikipedia.

It is taken from Chess, it breaks ties between players with the same number of wins in a Swiss Style tournament (the usual Chess Style tournament).

Each player's Buchholz score is calculated by adding the raw scores of each opponent and the sum of the opponent's raw score is used to break ties.

The major criticism of this system is that tie-break scores can be distorted by the set of opponents that each player plays (especially in early rounds). To avoid this problem a version of Buchholz, the Median-Buchholz System is sometimes used. In the Median-Buchholz System the best and worst scores of a player's opponents are discarded, and the remaining scores summed.

As I agree with this criticism, We use the Median-Buchholz System also known as "Winged-Buchholz System" ( Winged because "wings" are taken and cut off).

hope this helps.

So how are the "Dummy Player" and the dropped player worked into the system? Are they given a base score? What is the average players score and how does that compare to the Dummy Player? If I face a player in round 1 who forfeits and drops out in round two, how does that affect my score if another player and I finish tied? If he plays no Dummy Players and all of his opponents showed up and completed the 5 rounds is he going to end up with a higher Buchholz score? Could you publish this year's Buchholz scores for the rounds?

I am curious to see how it was done. -- jim

 

[mgmasl]

Are 4th round leagues played in three months rounds? I think it will help to play greater scenarios and to solve a lot of problems ...

 

[ecz]

Are 4th round leagues played in three months rounds? I think it will help to play greater scenarios and to solve a lot of problems ...

Better, the fourth round of these Leagues now last from July to the end of October: four months.

All Leagues still ends in the same day, 31 October, but the three four/rounds Leagues starting from 2016 will have a much longer final round and the Summer vacations should not cause problems anymore.

Only for the TOP VASLeague and for the new Second Line League (assuming it counts > 16 players) we mantain the classical two months/rounds Jan-Mar-May-Jul-Sep.

 

[ecz]

So how are the "Dummy Player" and the dropped player worked into the system? Are they given a base score? What is the average players score and how does that compare to the Dummy Player? If I face a player in round 1 who forfeits and drops out in round two, how does that affect my score if another player and I finish tied? If he plays no Dummy Players and all of his opponents showed up and completed the 5 rounds is he going to end up with a higher Buchholz score? Could you publish this year's Buchholz scores for the rounds?

I am curious to see how it was done. -- jim

Yes, and I'm here to explain.

You wrote:
If I face a player in round 1 who forfeits and drops out in round two, how does that affect my score if another player and I finish tied? If he plays no Dummy Players and all of his opponents showed up and completed the 5 rounds is he going to end up with a higher Buchholz score? Could you publish this year's Buchholz scores for the rounds?


This is the said known problem of the Buholtz Tiebreaker. You are heavily penalized since you gain zero for this ghostly opponent.

But luckily we adopt the *Median-Buchholz System* or, according another terminology, the * winged -Buchholz* to neutralise this distorsion: the worst (and the best) score of all opponents faced, real or dummy, are discarded. So in the case you have played once the dummy player (or a player that quits after the first defeat) and your opponent no, things are equalized.

This should be enough to manage the possible distorsion caused by the dummy or by players not really into the tournament, in the calculation of the Buchholz tiebreaker.

I think that head to head (if there are only two players tied) + eventually the Winged -Buchholz are the best possible and imaginable tiebreakers.

We have also a third Emergency Tiebreaker (used when the first two still cannot break the tie) that considers the round of the first loss, the later the better.
After 8 years I had to use it only once, in this last season: Terry Gray, Brian Routh and Stewart King all scored 24 points with the Winged -Buchholz, But Stewart had is only defeat later than all his opponents.

 

[ecz]

Could you publish this year's Buchholz scores for the rounds?

I am curious to see how it was done. -- jim

in the attachment there is the final table of your League:

you can read starting from left:
SP= starting position (random) for first rounds pairings
Player name
History = the ID number of the players faced round by round
P = # of games Played
W= #wins
L= # losses
D= # draws
Pts= Points
Bhz= Buchholz score ( total)
W Bhz= Winged Buchholz score ( Buchholz score less the worst and the best result of the opponent faced) the one VASLeague applies
1L = Round of the first loss (if any). It's the Emergency Tiebreaker coming in play if the Head to Head is NA and the Buchholz does not break the tie.

 

[Sparafucil3]

This is the said known problem of the Buholtz Tiebreaker. You are heavily penalized since you gain zero for this ghostly opponent.

What about the case where a player drops out? I am looking at Brian Wiersma's BHz (37) and WBHz (22). Not only did he play a Dummy Player in the first round, his second round player was dropped for his second forfeit. Did he get zero points for both of those? If that's the case, that seem extremely harsh IMO. What is the average point total for all the players left at the end of 5 rounds (i.e., on average, how much does a player contribute to another players BHz/WBHz score)? IMO, it would be more fair to make these players (Dummy Player and a dropped player) worth an average value that it is to make them worth zero. As an example, Ken Dunn averaged 10.1 BHz/game. Jim Bracken Average 9.2 BHz/game. Pierce Mason had 6 BHz/game. David Hassler had 5.2 BHz/game. Assuming Brian Wiersema had two games with zero BHz points (Dummy and a dropped player), he still ended up with a zero even after you clipped out a high and low. If you simply gave Brian the 5.2 points David Hassler had (the lowest total for any player completing all five rounds) he ends up with 27 points (27.2 really) and tied with Brackin. If you give him the average of all players who finished all 5 rounds, he likely earns more than 6 points and he is your second place finisher.

That's why I am interested in how you handle the forfeits in terms of BHz points. IMO, awarding zero points for those guys is a very hard punishment if you're going to use those to determine who moves on. It isn't my fault they didn't show up. It isn't my fault they were scheduled. If they dropped in the first round without any contact, and you schedule me against one--especially after giving me a bye in the first round--I am severely handicapped for promotion to the top league. IMO, both the Dummy Player and the Forfeit Player need to be worth some sort of BHz score. Making them both zero's is particularly harsh. -- jim

PS: Lest anyone thing I am complaining about no getting promoted to the TOP league, I am not. I have said elsewhere I have no interest in trying to match up across timezones. I was in the Top League once and dropped out because of that. If I had earned promotion this season, I would have declined it anyway.

 

[mgmasl]

Mi

Better, the fourth round of these Leagues now last from July to the end of October: four months.

All Leagues still ends in the same day, 31 October, but the three four/rounds Leagues starting from 2016 will have a much longer final round and the Summer vacations should not cause problems anymore.

Only for the TOP VASLeague and for the new Second Line League (assuming it counts > 16 players) we mantain the classical two months/rounds Jan-Mar-May-Jul-Sep.

Is there any possibility of 2 and a half months to get the same Full league period -january to october- in 4th identical rounds

 

[ecz]

No, never, sorry.
It would be a nightmare for me follow so many different timelines.
I can update results and the site once in two months, not more often.
I think also that this would confuse players .
After eight years there are still players asking when the next round begins!

 

[ecz]

What about the case where a player drops out? I am looking at Brian Wiersma's BHz (37) and WBHz (22). Not only did he play a Dummy Player in the first round, his second round player was dropped for his second forfeit. Did he get zero points for both of those? If that's the case, that seem extremely harsh IMO. What is the average point total for all the players left at the end of 5 rounds (i.e., on average, how much does a player contribute to another players BHz/WBHz score)? IMO, it would be more fair to make these players (Dummy Player and a dropped player) worth an average value that it is to make them worth zero. As an example, Ken Dunn averaged 10.1 BHz/game. Jim Bracken Average 9.2 BHz/game. Pierce Mason had 6 BHz/game. David Hassler had 5.2 BHz/game. Assuming Brian had two games with zero BHz points (Dummy and a dropped player), he still ended up with a zero even after you clipped out a high and low. If you simply gave him the 5.2 points David Hassler had (the lowest total for any player completing all five rounds) he ends up with 27 points (27.2 really) and tied with Brackin. If you give him the average of all players who finished all 5 rounds, he likely earns more than 6 points and he is your second place finisher.

That's why I am interested in how you handle the forfeits in terms of BHz points. IMO, awarding zero points for those guys is a very hard punishment if you're going to use those to determine who moves on. It isn't my fault they didn't show up. It isn't my fault they were scheduled. If they dropped in the first round without any contact, and you schedule me against one--especially after giving me a bye in the first round--I am severely handicapped for promotion to the top league. IMO, both the Dummy Player and the Forfeit Player need to be worth some sort of BHz score. Making them both zero's is particularly harsh. -- jim

PS: Lest anyone thing I am complaining about no getting promoted to the TOP league, I am not. I have said elsewhere I have no interest in trying to match up across timezones. I was in the Top League once and dropped out because of that. If I had earned promotion this season, I would have declined it anyway.

No system is perfect.
When to break a tie one must check the results of all (or part) of the opponents faced during the tournament this implies automatically one can/could favored or penalized beyond his merits.

If we neutralize totally the impact of Dummy players or of other players that do not take seriously the tournament, or that are so unskilled to be unable to supply the BHz score of one tied player as you suggest, we risk to penalize, at the opposite, who played instead five close games with five decent opponents. The medal has two faces.

After all I have a bye and/or encounter one or two very weak opponent in two games on five, it means not only that I totalize less BHz points (one face of the medal). It means also that I get also six easy points with no risk of a defeat in two games. A risk that my opponent, getting a much higher BHz score because he plays five *challenging" games on fives scheduled, runs at a much higher level (the second face).

So the compromise of the Median/Winged BHz tiebreaker that does not penalize too much (barring special cases when there are two or more opponents that scores zero) looks good, at least in the maiority of cases and in my opinion.

 

[Sparafucil3]

So the compromise of the Median/Winged BHz tiebreaker that does not penalize too much (barring special cases when there are two or more opponents that scores zero) looks good, at least in the maiority of cases and in my opinion.

So in the case of a player who is matched against both a Dummy Player and a Forfiet (such that he has one zero after clipping a high and a low) the lowest BHz score of the player who completed all five rounds. It isn't my tournament, and I have little desire to play in the top league, so I have no real dog in this fight, but it seems patently unfair to me that I should be handicapped because you decided to match me in round 1 with a Bye and in round two with a player you already knew was going to forfeit. As such, I have two matches with no chance to collect BHz points. Sure, I have two wins, but those wins mean less than the two wins the other player's who ended up 4 - 1 received. A single loss after that means I have zero chance of finishing in the top two and little incentive to continue except to play games. If your intent is to play games, there is no need to keep score. If your intent is to crown and champion, why should I continue this season, I am out of contention.

FWIW, the same thing happened to Dave Perham in the US West League. He played both a Dummy Player and a Forfiet. I can't see his fourth round opponent. Based on his WBHz score, I would bet it was also a draw. He ended 4 -1 and tied with the player who was selected to go through. I bet I could go back through previous years and show more instances.

Not my call, and not my tournament, but if I was playing for advancement and I got a draw and a forfeit in my record, I would stop playing after a single loss as I would have no chance to go through and there is nothing barring me from playing next season. JMO, YMMV. -- jim

 

[ecz]

So in the case of a player who is matched against both a Dummy Player and a Forfiet (such that he has one zero after clipping a high and a low) the lowest BHz score of the player who completed all five rounds. It isn't my tournament, and I have little desire to play in the top league, so I have no real dog in this fight, but it seems patently unfair to me that I should be handicapped because you decided to match me in round 1 with a Bye and in round two with a player you already knew was going to forfeit. As such, I have two matches with no chance to collect BHz points. Sure, I have two wins, but those wins mean less than the two wins the other player's who ended up 4 - 1 received. A single loss after that means I have zero chance of finishing in the top two and little incentive to continue except to play games. If your intent is to play games, there is no need to keep score. If your intent is to crown and champion, why should I continue this season, I am out of contention.

FWIW, the same thing happened to Dave Perham in the US West League. He played both a Dummy Player and a Forfiet. I can't see his fourth round opponent. Based on his WBHz score, I would bet it was also a draw. He ended 4 -1 and tied with the player who was selected to go through. I bet I could go back through previous years and show more instances.

Not my call, and not my tournament, but if I was playing for advancement and I got a draw and a forfeit in my record, I would stop playing after a single loss as I would have no chance to go through and there is nothing barring me from playing next season. JMO, YMMV. -- jim

do you know that I do not "assign" opponents as you said but it's all randomized from the first round where everyone could play everyone and after the first round the pairings are automatic (and at the same time still random since they depends on the initial random draw) ?

just out of couriousity, how the ties are broken at Albany for example? at Copenhagen they use the method I use when everything else fails: the round where one takes the first defeat, the later the better. I find the BHz largely superior and for this reason it's the second tiebreaker in VASLeague if head-to-head confrontation is NA.

 

[Sparafucil3]

do you know that I do not "assign" opponents as you said but it's all randomized from the first round where everyone could play everyone and after the first round the pairings are automatic (and at the same time still random since they depends on the initial random draw) ?

I knew the original pairings were random. I am still not sure how an opponent with 1 win (call it against a Dummy Player) could meet another player with a forfeit (who is now 0 - 1) in the second round when the whole point of a Swiss format is to match like records with like records. I would think the second round would be all players with 1 win in one group of matches and all players with 1 loss in the second group of matches. I didn't think it would be possible for a player to meet an 0 - 1 opponent in the second round if the whole point is bring together even players.

just out of couriousity, how the ties are broken at Albany for example? at Copenhagen they use the method I use when everything else fails: the round where one takes the first defeat, the later the better. I find the BHz largely superior and for this reason it's the second tiebreaker in VASLeague if head-to-head confrontation is NA.

I don't think Albany has ever had a tie for the top spot. Regardless, Albany definitely never has a bye appearing anywhere. Generally, no one every forfeits out of the scoring, playing every round (yes, I know this is not always true but is *mostly* true). I would bet Copenhagen is the same (no Dummies and little/no forfeits). Your problem is the forfeits--when coupled with a Dummy opponent--punishes players who don't get to play actual games. You recognize this, hence you clip the top and bottom scores which is a huge improvement unless I happen to have played two of them. Then I am screwed because if I suffer a single loss, I have no chance of advancing as I will be killed on WBHz score. If I am in it to win it, I am effectively out at that point. The only thing I can play for now is to improve my Bhz score so opponents I played benefit from my higher status and increase their odds of promotion.

Your tournament, your call. If it were mine, I would not put two zeroes down for any player. I would either use the average BHz score or the lowest BHz score of the player who completed all 5 rounds instead. I would have to look back over the years and see how that affected the standings before I made a decision on which one. I just think it punishes the player who shows up each round and plays a game in the hopes of winning, only to find out his chances were determined at random when matched against a Dummy and a first round forfeit player who is now likely to take his second forfeit. JMO, YMMV. -- jim

 

[ecz]

I knew the original pairings were random. I am still not sure how an opponent with 1 win (call it against a Dummy Player) could meet another player with a forfeit (who is now 0 - 1) in the second round when the whole point of a Swiss format is to match like records with like records. I would think the second round would be all players with 1 win in one group of matches and all players with 1 loss in the second group of matches. I didn't think it would be possible for a player to meet an 0 - 1 opponent in the second round if the whole point is bring together even players. (...)

but this does not happen.
taken from the "rules" of the Caesar program:
After each round the players will be ordered by points and then by original position in the table.
New Round Pairing Rules:
A) Two players won't be paired against each other twice.
B) Starting from the 'best' player, each player will be paired against the 'best' player he has'nt yet played, unless this implies the violation of the rule A).


This is how I created my hand-made pairings before Caesar and how Caesar manages now pairings.
In your example any player beating the dummy player in round one, in round two will face a real player also 1-0 .

The only possible exception is when one game in round 1 ends with a draw.

If a draw happens in round one, then a player 1-0 MUST play in round 2 against one of these players with only one point. If this player drawing the first scenario quits after the defeat in round 2 and never plays any of the following rounds, it happens that our player gains zero BHz for his round 1 opponent (the Dummy), and 1 for his round 2 opponent (the player drawing the round 1).

Even clipping the worst result he still will have a low BHz that probably will kill him if tied with someone at the end. This is a critical situation that may happen. Not often but is possible.

I see that your suggestion (give instead than a brutal zero the *average-per round* gained by the lower player completing all five rounds) could effectively mitigate this risk.
I'll see how this can be implemented in the program.

 

[mgmasl]

No, never, sorry.
It would be a nightmare for me follow so many different timelines.
I can update results and the site once in two months, not more often.
I think also that this would confuse players .
After eight years there are still players asking when the next round begins!

Well... after all are only two different timelines.. One for the big league and one for the other ones.. Of course, I may help you by doing anything you need.

Anyway, I see no other player is asking for two more weeks for every round.. so maybe is only my very particular problem..

 

[ecz]

Well... after all are only two different timelines.. One for the big league and one for the other ones.. Of course, I may help you by doing anything you need.

Anyway, I see no other player is asking for two more weeks for every round.. so maybe is only my very particular problem..

Jan to start for everyone,
march for round 2 for TOP and Second Line League;
mid march for the three regional leagues (round 2);
may for round 3 VASLeague and SSL,
june for the three regioanl leagues (round 3),
july for round 4 VASLeague and SSL;
mid july for the three regional leagues (round 4) ,
september for round 5 VASLeague and SSL,
end of October to close everything;

makes 9 appointments in one year instead than 6.

+50% of work ... you want me :dead:

 

[FanaticTW]

Enrico -- I am going to withdraw from the US/Canada East Minors for 2015

This is no reflection on you or any of the gents I've played-- You're all princes!...

real life demands some more time in the coming year

Thanks

Ted Wilcox

 

[RZasl]

I sent in my registration email...looking forward to it! I had thought about doing it last year, but wanted to get more experience playing in general and on VASL in particular. I've been back playing ASL for about 17 months after having not played any the previous 15 years. In the past 17 months I've completed 40 games (several on VASL) and been to my first 3 tournaments. So I feel I'm ready to take another step and play in the VASLeague. It looks like it should be a lot of fun and committing to the 5 rounds won't be a problem.