VASL required?

[xenovin]

about an hour after a new module arrives, I see people posting where are the VASL files. My understanding is that it is all done by volunteers on their own time aka the VASL elves. I don’t use VASL that much so not high on my wish list but is it fair say:

1) VASL should come out with new modules
2) optional - keep to elves schedule
3) what’s VASL?

 

[Robin Reeve]

I like that there is a delay.
Whining because there is no VASL files immediately after a product is sold reveals some incapacity to wait a bit.
It is not as if there was a lack of scenarios to play in the meantime.

 

[rreinesch]

A) they are volunteers. B) at least from a BFP perspective we wholeheartedly support VASL, C) The elves and gnomes have been busy working on my inputs for O:S for a while now, and they are close to being able to release Objective:Schmidt to the masses. But understand it is also something of a balancing act on our part. It is probably in our best business interest to hold off as long as possible to maximize sales, but at the same time getting our VASL offering out there for folks to play our scenarios helps to increase exposure but at the possible cost of folks not acquiring O:S because VASL for it is now freely available.

 

[von Marwitz]

There is no choice but to keep to the schedule of the VASL elves, whether you use VASL or not, whether you 'want it' quickly or not. Provided the publishers allow VASL use in the first place.

von Marwitz

 

[hongkongwargamer]

Here's another angle..

I can't play without VASL and therefore wouldn't buy a thing nor be in this hobby had it not been VASL. (Thanks so much VASL peeps)

 

[Spencer Armstrong]

Here's another angle..

I can't play without VASL and therefore wouldn't buy a thing nor be in this hobby had it not been VASL. (Thanks so much VASL peeps)

Me too. I would go so far as to say there are enough people in this boat that ASL is still around in the strength it is largely due to VASL.

 

[Robin Reeve]

It also is due to selling the physical products.
There must be a balance between the latter and their dematerialised versions.

 

[Spencer Armstrong]

It also is due to selling the physical products.
There must be a balance between the latter and their dematerialised versions.

There's nothing to balance. Every VASL player I know buys the physical products. It's just that many of us wouldn't be able to play them without VASL and would have stopped buying them.

 

[TopT]

It also is due to selling the physical products.
There must be a balance between the latter and their dematerialised versions.

On the same vein, I stopped buying CH because they do not support VASL to a great extent. There is a lot of CH VASL maps out there but there has been a hit and miss type of environment.

 

[hongkongwargamer]

I’d say VASL is especially important for the Asian market where ASL players (with the exception of Hong Kong, Tokyo + Australia ) are largely dispersed and don’t have critical mass in particular cities. The fact that there’s a global (vasl) community out there you can play with is a big factor that pushes someone to buy and to go thru the journey of learning the rules.

 

[SFiedler]

There's nothing to balance. Every VASL player I know buys the physical products. It's just that many of us wouldn't be able to play them without VASL and would have stopped buying them.

word!

 

[rdw5150]

There's nothing to balance. Every VASL player I know buys the physical products. It's just that many of us wouldn't be able to play them without VASL and would have stopped buying them.

This...... it has nothing to do balance..... without VASL, I would not have: a good friend nor would I be playing (or buying) ASL.

Though asking where modules are right after release is a bit much.

Peace

Roger

 

[Carln0130]

A) they are volunteers. B) at least from a BFP perspective we wholeheartedly support VASL, C) The elves and gnomes have been busy working on my inputs for O:S for a while now, and they are close to being able to release Objective:Schmidt to the masses. But understand it is also something of a balancing act on our part. It is probably in our best business interest to hold off as long as possible to maximize sales, but at the same time getting our VASL offering out there for folks to play our scenarios helps to increase exposure but at the possible cost of folks not acquiring O:S because VASL for it is now freely available.

Hi Rich. I am aware of the conundrum, but given the number of players who can't play at all without VASL and who still conscientiously purchase products, I would have to say in the end, it is a definite plus. I know several people who would either not play at all, or far, far less, were it not for VASL and those guys do pick up product. The hobby is populated by good folk, most understand for it to endure, it must be supported.

In the end, I think you are on the plus side of the ledger with it. I do get the concern though.

 

[dpabrams77]

They are two kinds of people in the world that play ASL:
1. VASL players; who have to wait for maps and counters created by angels so they can play the latest module.
2. Dudes in their underwear in Mom's house with their $50.00 toe nail clippers, clipping away and eating the counter clippings.

 

[Robin Reeve]

There's nothing to balance. Every VASL player I know buys the physical products. It's just that many of us wouldn't be able to play them without VASL and would have stopped buying them.

There clearly is something about balance, if you take seriously rreinesch's post where he precisely explains the policy of BFP on the question - he speaks of balance, if you read him with attention.
I was not making up something.
I am less sure that no shift towards total dematerialisation - meaning no purchase of physical products - will occur.
And I don't believe that all people are good and honest.
Anyway, the first question is not about total absence of VASL (a fallacious premise to argue from) but about waiting a little between the physical production and the VASL adaptation.
Up to now, that delay hasn't harmed anyone nor the hobby.
And VASL is the main way I play ASL too, so there are no "camps" between VASL and non VASL players in this discussion.

 

[hongkongwargamer]

I think the fallacious argument here is that somehow folks are demanding “immediate” release of vasl modules. We all understand they are done by fellow gamers. I see us merely stating the importance of VASL and suggesting that it doesn’t only facilitate playing but it enlarges the addressable market and enable more sales.

I have actually made some preliminary overtures (limited primarily by my lack of intelligence) recently myself of helping out with vasl production, however it all seems like black magic at the moment.

 

[dpabrams77]

VASL made it possible for me to finally learn and play ASL properly. With the help of UTube, Skype and some great teachers, I have been at it for 4 years now. My original BV, Yanks and other modules sat in storage for almost 25 years, because I had no ftf opponents. I buy the physical products today because I want them. There is a collectionist in most of us. VASL support follows the release of physical products and because of this, there is a delay. Imagine if the process was reversed? That would likely involve monetizing VASL as companies would want to capitalize on their investments. This would upset the "balance" as we know it and not in a good way. The current practice works because guys that VASL support the physical paper end. VASL volunteers are players and supporters that respond quickly to the demands of VASL players and do it free. VASL evolves and improves because of the initiative of those volunteers.

 

[Spencer Armstrong]

There clearly is something about balance, if you take seriously rreinesch's post where he precisely explains the policy of BFP on the question - he speaks of balance, if you read him with attention.
I was not making up something.
I am less sure that no shift towards total dematerialisation - meaning no purchase of physical products - will occur.
And I don't believe that all people are good and honest.
Anyway, the first question is not about total absence of VASL (a fallacious premise to argue from) but about waiting a little between the physical production and the VASL adaptation.
Up to now, that delay hasn't harmed anyone nor the hobby.
And VASL is the main way I play ASL too, so there are no "camps" between VASL and non VASL players in this discussion.

I admit I hadn’t really read Rick’s post. With respect, but bluntly, I think he’s wrong on that detail (Note they’re pro VASL overall both in statement and action). I am confident VASL drives sales on a net basis and I don’t think the timing of module updates has much of an impact.

Sure, there are bad eggs, but I really do think it’s a minority. And there were bad eggs with photocopiers too, so that’s not just a VASL issue.

As for the shift to non physical products, we’ll see. I’m for it but the demographics of the game make it seem unlikely.

 

[Paul M. Weir]

Though not a VASLer, I might as well throw in my opinion.

VASL appears to be a godsend to many and we should be very thankful to all those who dedicate their time for free to make it work. They are due our patience and understanding, not just gratitude.

I doubt that anyone knows how many or what proportion play ASL on VASL without either player having the physical product. Whatever that fraction is, the sale of physical product seems healthy judging how often and how quickly stuff goes out of print. So even if that number is somewhat significant it does not yet appear to have a major impact on sales. While those players might be depriving a producer of sales there is another side to it. I am sure there are some of those who play without the physical modules do so because they simply can't get the module and if they were not able to play on VASL might have otherwise been inclined to let ASL drop. So while offering a piracy opportunity, it also should keep frustrated product-less players in the fold.

As for virtual product, count me out. I like the idea of physical components, the moving of units and the simple fact that if civilisation goes down the tubes I can still play a game even if starving.

 

[hongkongwargamer]

Though not a VASLer, I might as well throw in my opinion.

VASL appears to be a godsend to many and we should be very thankful to all those who dedicate their time for free to make it work. They are due our patience and understanding, not just gratitude.

I doubt that anyone knows how many or what proportion play ASL on VASL without either player having the physical product. Whatever that fraction is, the sale of physical product seems healthy judging how often and how quickly stuff goes out of print. So even if that number is somewhat significant it does not yet appear to have a major impact on sales. While those players might be depriving a producer of sales there is another side to it. I am sure there are some of those who play without the physical modules do so because they simply can't get the module and if they were not able to play on VASL might have otherwise been inclined to let ASL drop. So while offering a piracy opportunity, it also should keep frustrated product-less players in the fold.

As for virtual product, count me out. I like the idea of physical components, the moving of units and the simple fact that if civilisation goes down the tubes I can still play a game even if starving.

.. and that's why I keep a small set at a backup location