VASL Map Online Problem/Suggestion Form

[zgrose]

FWIW, why does anyone think there is any "snapping" off-board versus your eyes vs the game thinking where you're dropping the stack is X vs Y...

 

[apbills]

I don't think it is snapping to anything offboard. Just playing around a bit, using a draggable overlay perimeter line, and it clearly snaps to the grid (hex center or hexside) and I can easily get it to snap to where I want it as long as I select it at its center. Offboard it clearly doesn't snap to anything as I can incrementally move it around. The trick, which has always been the case, it to figure out where it is really going to land, which seems to be a function of where on the counter you selected it, how far you moved it, and where the ghosted image of the counter looks to be.

Solutions within the map code and grids are going to be complex, with many unintended consequences. The "Does not Stack" trait checkbox for not snapping to a grid, along with the nudge code, is the far less risky, and much easier solution for the counters normally used offboard. If you want to have a nice lined up presentation of forces for a scenario setup, add an additional board which will give you a grid, and you can line things up as you want. You can use terrain SSR to change the offboard board to be either white (Ground snow) or Sand (DTO). All you need to do is place the html scenario placard so that the grid lines up correctly behind it.

 

[von Marwitz]

FWIW, why does anyone think there is any "snapping" off-board versus your eyes vs the game thinking where you're dropping the stack is X vs Y...

I don't think it is snapping to anything offboard.

Offboard, the situation is peculiar:

In pre v6.6.8, it was possible to nudge counters, labels into position with some patience very precisely, in other words, seemingly "to the single pixel". This would seem to indicate, that there is no grid offboard.

However, try the following pre v6.6.8 offboard:
Pull yourself a Perimeter Line from the Draggable Overlays and place it offboard. Then painstaikingly align a dozen counters along that Perimeter Line. After that, draw a frame to mark all these counters. Finally, drag these marked counters as a group to a different position offboard.

You will note, if you "drop" the marked counters after having moved them as a group together, that some of them are no longer aligned as they had been before moving them.

If there was no grid offboard, then there should be no change whatsoever to the alignment of that group of counters. But since there is a change of alignment after movement, we are forced to conclude that some sort of offboard grid has to exist.

von Marwitz

 

[von Marwitz]

If you want to have a nice lined up presentation of forces for a scenario setup, add an additional board which will give you a grid, and you can line things up as you want.

As pointed out before, this method works to some extent, but is has its limits.

You cannot reach the counter density that way which you might need to fit a large OoB into the available 400px offboard margin.

Furthermore, that method does not take into consideration, that it is not only counters which you want to place and align offboard. You also want to place and algin counters in relation to Labels, which can be more than a string of letters but also more complicated HTML frames. The hex grid in such cases will not suit your needs:



What you see above is a "Label" which contains HTML-code. A number of counters are placed on that Label. While the above shows the "best efforts of 15 minutes" to place the counters using v6.6.8 (i.e. nigh impossible), this example still illumines why placing an "extra board" to serve as an offboard area is not a solution. A placement of counters suited to the needs of this "Turn Track, Weather, SAN Area" is impossible to be served by any onboard-grid (using an extra board to create a pseudo-offboard area would necessarily implement an onboard-grid to that pseudo-offboard area).

von Marwitz

 

[Vic Provost]

As pointed out before, this method works to some extent, but is has its limits.

You cannot reach the counter density that way which you might need to fit a large OoB into the available 400px offboard margin.

Furthermore, that method does not take into consideration, that it is not only counters which you want to place and align offboard. You also want to place and algin counters in relation to Labels, which can be more than a string of letters but also more complicated HTML frames. The hex grid in such cases will not suit your needs:

View attachment 28844

What you see above is a "Label" which contains HTML-code. A number of counters are placed on that Label. While the above shows the "best efforts of 15 minutes" to place the counters using v6.6.8 (i.e. nigh impossible), this example still illumines why placing an "extra board" to serve as an offboard area is not a solution. A placement of counters suited to the needs of this "Turn Track, Weather, SAN Area" is impossible to be served by any onboard-grid (using an extra board to create a pseudo-offboard area would necessarily implement an onboard-grid to that pseudo-offboard area).

von Marwitz

Where can you find 'Labels' like the one above for the turn track, ELR, SAN, etc? Nice presentation.

 

[von Marwitz]

Where can you find 'Labels' like the one above for the turn track, ELR, SAN, etc? Nice presentation.

The "basic" Labels are found here:



If you pull one, it allows you to insert two lines of text.

One "line of text" is not to be taken literally, though. You can instead enter a whole lot of text. If this text is HTML code, you can create the things you've seen. By far not all HTML code works, but some basic HTML stuff does.

The following is an example of the HTML-code which you would need to insert into the Label text line...


<HTML>
<TABLE WIDTH=400 BORDER=0 CELLPADDING=2 CELLSPACING=0>
<COL WIDTH=400>
<TR VALIGN=TOP>
<TD WIDTH=400>
<P>
<IMG SRC="https://www.anicursor.com/pant14.jpg" ALIGN=BOTTOM WIDTH=400 HEIGHT=300 BORDER=0>
</P>
</TD>
</TR>
</TABLE>
</HTML>

to produce the following effect (i.e. the picture in the given format):



von Marwitz

 

[Kohlenklau]

Where can you find 'Labels' like the one above for the turn track, ELR, SAN, etc? Nice presentation.

EDIT: Neal made a version like that one show above. https://asl-players.net/vasl-tables/

 

[apbills]

EDIT: Neal made a version like that one show above. https://asl-players.net/vasl-tables/

This is a modified version to suit my purposes. It uses a combination of the html overlay and counters. I find it useful for my large CG games given the effort to make compared to the gaming time is extremely low.

As pointed out before, this method works to some extent, but is has its limits.

You cannot reach the counter density that way which you might need to fit a large OoB into the available 400px offboard margin.

Furthermore, that method does not take into consideration, that it is not only counters which you want to place and align offboard. You also want to place and algin counters in relation to Labels, which can be more than a string of letters but also more complicated HTML frames. The hex grid in such cases will not suit your needs:

What you see above is a "Label" which contains HTML-code. A number of counters are placed on that Label. While the above shows the "best efforts of 15 minutes" to place the counters using v6.6.8 (i.e. nigh impossible), this example still illumines why placing an "extra board" to serve as an offboard area is not a solution. A placement of counters suited to the needs of this "Turn Track, Weather, SAN Area" is impossible to be served by any onboard-grid (using an extra board to create a pseudo-offboard area would necessarily implement an onboard-grid to that pseudo-offboard area).

von Marwitz

With an additional board in place you have far more than 400px to use, so that is no longer a problem at all.

Which is easier to implement? Modifying the html to better fit to the existing board grid or modifying VASSAL/VASL to add an offboard grid, which works for any sized scenario mapboard? It is the dynamic nature of ASL scenario sizes that will be the most challenging issue IMO.

IMO a benefit analysis would place the offboard scenario card alignment enhancement fairly low on a list of needs. Luckily I am not the person doing any of the coding (I stick to counters for the most part). Others may have a different result from that analysis. Finding a non-coding solution now may be time better spent than waiting for such an enhancement, although Doug has indicated 6.6.9 will be dedicated to mainly enhancements.

 

[Vic Provost]

Thanks guys for your replies, I'll see what I can come up with, it sure looks good and way better than what I usually use.

 

[DougRim]

I have implemented a fix for the counter "jumping" issue which I would like some help testing. It works on both my devices in standalone mode and when online together so I am hoping it will have wide applicability. But there are lots of different setups, connections and game setups so I can't be 100% sure. Some testing help would be much appreciated.

Get it here: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/rmffgwwl5wl5hd3jamlmq/vasl-6.6.9-beta1.vmod?rlkey=6cfgq48gil1fl2sh6ayk1m8rc&dl=0

If I get a good response I should be able to release vasl-6.6.9-beta1 more broadly at the end of the week.

 

[DougRim]

I have now released vasl6.6.9-beta2, which, while still a beta release, does contain a fix for the counter jumping issue that appears to work well (minor issue with counter placement when dragging onto map still exists). Get it at https://vasl.info/vasl_coop.htm.

 

[ibncalb]

6.6.9 Beta 2 VASSAL 3.7.12 Feedback

Until this version ctrl click and alt click had different functions, one would centre your opponents map on your click, one would just make a highlight and not move the map.

Now they seem to both move the map. Has anyone else observed this?

 

[Michael R]

6.6.9 Beta 2 VASSAL 3.7.12 Feedback

Until this version ctrl click and alt click had different functions, one would centre your opponents map on your click, one would just make a highlight and not move the map.

Now they seem to both move the map. Has anyone else observed this?

Check your preferences (or options, depending on OS). The new version comes with “center on opponents move” turned on.

 

[ibncalb]

Check your preferences (or options, depending on OS). The new version comes with “center on opponents move” turned on.

Thanks. Yep we're used to that option. We regularly turn it on and off when doing refit phase. All was as expected but still the odd behaviour.

 

[PresterJohn]

There are two "centre on" options. I assume they are both turned on.

 

[JOS]

My apologies if this is not the appropriate spot for issues with overlays ... Setting up J235 in VASL, Board 35 uses overlays 2 and 5. The PTO/light jungle transformation results in some visual oddities on the stream overlay (2), while trying 'Marsh to Woods' causes a woods to appear in the stream on overlay 5. It was no big deal (I just didn't use the transforms), but thought someone might be interested. I assumed with the automatic board updates, etc., that my game versions weren't relevant, but it was with VASL 6.6.7, VASSAL 3.7.6. I usually try to stay a version or two behind the cutting edge, but if this behavior is absent in the newer versions please let me know and I'll drag myself into the 21st century.
Enjoy, Joshua

 

[PresterJohn]

Is this happening with the Overlays extension (is it updated?) or is it happening with the VASL built in overlays when you choose new maps?
If it's the built in overlays then you're going to have to check if it is a problem with the current test version available as 669beta2 (it would be nice to know if it is a problem that needs to be fixed). If I have time I will try and look at the latest VASL.

 

[JOS]

... happening with the VASL built in overlays when you choose new maps ...

This. I tried it from the 'Pick new boards for this scenario' option, but had also tried when first creating the map using the 'Choose boards' step of the New Game path.
Joshua

 

[JOS]

Update: I appreciate the hint on trying the draggable overlay options from the main window. Those did not have the issue.
Thanks very much! Joshua

 

[PresterJohn]

Okay I just confirmed that with 669b2 the transform for overlay 2 is misbehaving when doing the setup for J236 and adding overlays when you choose boards.

EC are Moist, with no wind at start. PTO Terrain (G.1) is in effect, including Light Jungle (G2.1) [EXC: Jungle is a Level I obstacleJ. Place overlays as follows:
2 on 35DD8-DD9; and 5 on 35K2-K1. A11 marsh and swamp is Light Jungle. A +1 LV Hindrance (E3.1) applies at all ranges on Game Turns 4-6.