VASL LOGS?

Stewart

Elder Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2006
Messages
3,592
Reaction score
698
Location
Russia
Country
llRussia
You guys uploading any of these to ASL ARCHIVE???
 

Michael R

Minor Hero
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Feb 4, 2003
Messages
5,013
Reaction score
4,840
Location
La Belle Province
First name
Michael
Country
llCanada
You think someone would want to replay logs of a Virtual ASL match? I don't. I have done it once or twice for a short scenario that I was curious about. I make logs for the possibility of writing an AAR for my blog. You really want to see those log files? Even the huge ones?
 

Stewart

Elder Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2006
Messages
3,592
Reaction score
698
Location
Russia
Country
llRussia
You think someone would want to replay logs of a Virtual ASL match? I don't. I have done it once or twice for a short scenario that I was curious about. I make logs for the possibility of writing an AAR for my blog. You really want to see those log files? Even the huge ones?
I don't want those logs...they are another tool others can USE to go make your AAR far more appealing.
The reviewer can see that action you are describing turn to turn. They can follow along like a "documentary"
Making the sometimes LONG AAR review a "live replay" is akin to a series replay which seems to be welcome by some.
I'd rather see a "huge VASL log" then read 8 pages of review.


Yes some do watch logs.
Just as players play a scenario 3 or 4 times before a tournament to get "used to it"....they can save countless hours if they simply review a previous play of that game.
 

Sparafucil3

Forum Guru
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
11,878
Reaction score
6,134
Location
USA
First name
Jim
Country
llUnited States
I don't want those logs...they are another tool others can USE to go make your AAR far more appealing.
The reviewer can see that action you are describing turn to turn. They can follow along like a "documentary"
Making the sometimes LONG AAR review a "live replay" is akin to a series replay which seems to be welcome by some.
I'd rather see a "huge VASL log" then read 8 pages of review.
That lends itself well to video discussion. It does not lend itself well to a written medium. I have an idea on how it might work and I may give it a go after the New Year.

Just as players play a scenario 3 or 4 times before a tournament to get "used to it"....they can save countless hours if they simply review a previous play of that game.
What do I gain from watching to players play a scenario poorly? I know you disparage METT but it serves as a good fundamental tool for analyzing a scenario. M is the mission, in ASL we call this Victory Conditions. E is equipment, in ASL this is the OB we are given to get the job done. The first T is Terrain, that which we call the board. The last T is time, AKA turn count. We must do X by Y with Z across this space. Some of that space is not traversable. Other portions of that space slow our progress towards X leaving little or no room for us to complete X by Y. Knowing X, only some portions of Z may accomplish X (e.g, only Infantry can take a Building). We have to account for that in our planning. Knowing the space, we know how far we have to go to accomplish X. This gives us a timeline against which we can measure our progress. This will help us to refine our initial plan as we move forward towards X.

You don't need a log file to do any of this. Just the board, rules knowledge, and an understanding of how to read a scenario card. -- jim
 

asloser

The Head Tuomo of the Finnish ASL Community
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
1,185
Reaction score
1,868
Location
Klaukkala-Finland
Country
llFinland
IJust as players play a scenario 3 or 4 times before a tournament to get "used to it"....they can save countless hours if they simply review a previous play of that game.
For me it does not help to read an series replay or watch other people to play a scenario or read analysis before. Because if I do that I start to try and play someone elses game, not mine. And this will fail at least for me. Apart from the simplest of scripted small scenarios (take soemthing like Guards Counterattack or Going to Church as an example) there are multiple ways to apporoach a scenario and I prefer to find my way to apporoach a given situation and take the learning from that to improve my way of playing.

IMO you can do this with a single playing and some analysis on what has happened when preparing for an event. And in the end of the day everything is related to you opponent, different people will read different situations differently and it might be your 3-4 games or multiple logfiles wachted are not that useful against someone who is a very good and/or creative player.

The only thing I like about such material before the game is to point out new rules or learn about different qualities of units, especially odd vehicles. But this in my opinion needs narration or written text, I cannot learn rules from just wathing a log file.

Log file shows what happened not what was planned and how that worked in reality and what was the adaptation of the plan on things not working out as planned. ASL has a lot of randomeness and major part of the skill is to react to unforeseen shit happening and keeping you head cool when that shit happens.
 

Maurizizio

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
430
Reaction score
470
Location
Florida
First name
Maurizio
Country
llUnited States
You think someone would want to replay logs of a Virtual ASL match? I don't. I have done it once or twice for a short scenario that I was curious about. I make logs for the possibility of writing an AAR for my blog. You really want to see those log files? Even the huge ones?
I have in requested in the past logs of other ASL players. I love to watch other people games. I think it gives me a different perspective. Moreover, I think it is not enough highlighted how different players have different characteristics, and in tournaments, I think it make sense to remember what “kind of player“ is sitting in front of you (eg: aggressive, eager to risk bogs with AFVs in the woods, cautious with all GUNs and SWs placed in the back, and so on…).
 

Sparafucil3

Forum Guru
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
11,878
Reaction score
6,134
Location
USA
First name
Jim
Country
llUnited States
I have in requested in the past logs of other ASL players. I love to watch other people games. I think it gives me a different perspective. Moreover, I think it is not enough highlighted how different players have different characteristics, and in tournaments, I think it make sense to remember what “kind of player“ is sitting in front of you (eg: aggressive, eager to risk bogs with AFVs in the woods, cautious with all GUNs and SWs placed in the back, and so on…).
Random people looking at my logs and watching them wouldn't bother me. Someone analyzing my logs for others without the context of what I was trying to accomplish in the moment without seeking my thoughts on the subject isn't something I would sign up for. I have nothing to hide but some random person speaking about why I should have done this or should have done that without a notion of what I am seeking to accomplish just isn't helpful as a teaching tool. I would happily engage with someone as learning is possible in both directions. But I generally don't save logs of my games. -- jim
 

Maurizizio

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
430
Reaction score
470
Location
Florida
First name
Maurizio
Country
llUnited States
Random people looking at my logs and watching them wouldn't bother me. Someone analyzing my logs for others without the context of what I was trying to accomplish in the moment without seeking my thoughts on the subject isn't something I would sign up for. I have nothing to hide but some random person speaking about why I should have done this or should have done that without a notion of what I am seeking to accomplish just isn't helpful as a teaching tool. I would happily engage with someone as learning is possible in both directions. But I generally don't save logs of my games. -- jim
I agree, I would love to have logs with explanations of the plans. But most of all, I love ASL because there is not "A SOLUTION TO WIN". In a scenario there are so many alternatives (EXC: Dog scenarios) that is to me impossible to say what is right and what is wrong. Options change during the game (and this is what I really love in this game), giving the players a new number of options/alternatives every 2 turns.
 

Sparafucil3

Forum Guru
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
11,878
Reaction score
6,134
Location
USA
First name
Jim
Country
llUnited States
I agree, I would love to have logs with explanations of the plans. But most of all, I love ASL because there is not "A SOLUTION TO WIN". In a scenario there are so many alternatives (EXC: Dog scenarios) that is to me impossible to say what is right and what is wrong. Options change during the game (and this is what I really love in this game), giving the players a new number of options/alternatives every 2 turns.
The board is the "world" in a game sense. Every move changes the "world" your counters live in. Every shot, every Residual FP placed, change the world and thus affect decision making. Not having the thoughts of the person living in the moment is a waste IMO. -- jim
 

Maurizizio

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
430
Reaction score
470
Location
Florida
First name
Maurizio
Country
llUnited States
The board is the "world" in a game sense. Every move changes the "world" your counters live in. Every shot, every Residual FP placed, change the world and thus affect decision making. Not having the thoughts of the person living in the moment is a waste IMO. -- jim
Agree.

On this matter, the Italian community made quite an interesting event/experiment. During the Italian league, couple of games were "live", meaning the players were on a discord channel and playing on VASL, the others were synch on VASL, but using another Discord channel had the possibility to look at the game and openly guess the plans of the players, discuss the result of the dice, and more interesting what could have been "next". I might be wrong, but I was looking at one of those game/session and there were more than 10 people on the discord channel. I really liked the experience. After the game, the two players joined the other Discord channel and we start talking all together. I enjoy it. Lot of laughings.
 

Sparafucil3

Forum Guru
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
11,878
Reaction score
6,134
Location
USA
First name
Jim
Country
llUnited States
Agree.

On this matter, the Italian community made quite an interesting event/experiment. During the Italian league, couple of games were "live", meaning the players were on a discord channel and playing on VASL, the others were synch on VASL, but using another Discord channel had the possibility to look at the game and openly guess the plans of the players, discuss the result of the dice, and more interesting what could have been "next". I might be wrong, but I was looking at one of those game/session and there were more than 10 people on the discord channel. I really liked the experience. After the game, the two players joined the other Discord channel and we start talking all together. I enjoy it. Lot of laughings.
If I spoke Italian, I would love that. -- jim
 
Top