Valor of the Guards Q&A

[janusz.maxe]

A VERY strange thing.
German FlaK wagens.
1: Buy them. A lot of them.
2: Abandon and destroy. Get a horde of 1-2-7 crews with s-r, perfect for manning long range SWs, guns, placing DCs and scouting.
3: Loose 3 CVP per vehicle, thus maybe giving you more CPP and maybe even a Soviet victory (thus CG balance for you).
4: Recover on anything but 6, get a new mobile vehicle with a new crew.
5: Rince and repreat next CG-day.

Am I missing something. Pleeeaase say yes.
Janusz

 

[IYAOYAS]

Just finished 16N of CGI and came across something strange. Had a StuG with an 8-1 AL recalled due to Sniper STUN. It seems to me the AL should be gone but recalled vehicles just remove the recall during Refit. I know, it's a bit of a reality argument.

 

[Bob Miller]

A VERY strange thing.
German FlaK wagens.
1: Buy them. A lot of them.
2: Abandon and destroy. Get a horde of 1-2-7 crews with s-r, perfect for manning long range SWs, guns, placing DCs and scouting.
3: Loose 3 CVP per vehicle, thus maybe giving you more CPP and maybe even a Soviet victory (thus CG balance for you).
4: Recover on anything but 6, get a new mobile vehicle with a new crew.
5: Rince and repreat next CG-day.

Am I missing something. Pleeeaase say yes.
Janusz

I hope you are missing something as well, as this is a rather grievious loophole. In my soon to start CG IV where I play the Germans I will play any surviving crews "correctly" on a self-imposed volunteer basis. If I have a crew survivng a wreck, I will try to retreat and exit that 1-2-7 crew off a friendly board edge and not keep him as a retained unit. Yes this hurts me as I lose a crew to do the above listed activities but I will feel better as I am playing the WWII game of ASL more true to what actually occured in the real battlefield.

Maybe if there is a second edition to the VotGs rules, some type of crew recall will make it into the rules. Hey, the main rulebook has now had three revisions, why shouldn't a much loved and played HASL CG undergo the same refinement?

 

['Ol Fezziwig]

...I hope you are missing something as well, as this is a rather grievious loophole...

VotG CG16.

 

[Bob Miller]

Good that that CG rule is there to prevent voluntary Abandonments (I would never do that), but I will still play the voluntary recall on any surviving crew.

Thanks for the quick rules notation

 

[Sven]

Hi Guys,

Playing CG1 VOTG and a question came up regarding CG13 Map Exit:

If a broken unit exits the map and rolls snake eyes on their exit NMC, does HoB apply?

Thanks!

--Sven

 

[Stacks]

Hi Guys,

Playing CG1 VOTG and a question came up regarding CG13 Map Exit:

If a broken unit exits the map and rolls snake eyes on their exit NMC, does HoB apply?

Thanks!

--Sven

Yes, the rule is the same as the Red Barricades rule and any Hero is retained
(offb´d) until the end of the CG scenario, a unit that becomes berserk will
Battle Harden instead since no LOS is possible to any enemy unit.

 

[Stacks]

A VERY strange thing.
German FlaK wagens.
1: Buy them. A lot of them.
1.5: Enter a hex with debris then change VCA a thousand times until you became Immobile.
2: Abandon and destroy. Get a horde of 1-2-7 crews with s-r, perfect for manning long range SWs, guns, placing DCs and scouting.
3: Loose 3 CVP per vehicle, thus maybe giving you more CPP and maybe even a Soviet victory (thus CG balance for you).
4: Recover on anything but 6, get a new mobile vehicle with a new crew.
5: Rince and repreat next CG-day.

Am I missing something. Pleeeaase say yes.
Janusz

Yes, you missed - one paragraph, otherwise it would be perfectly legal.

To abandon and destroy StuG IIIG & B should also work to your benefit.

 

[Stacks]

....I hope you are missing something as well, as this is a rather grievious loophole...

VotG CG16.

In VotG CG16 the word "Mobile" can be found (see Index).

 

[janusz.maxe]

Ah, thanks Mel. This was the thing we discussed in Arnhem, and I forgot to include the non-mobile thingy.

THX

My reason to post the loophole here is to make Tom Morin and Perry aware of it, thus including an fix in any upcoming errata.
Janusz

 

['Ol Fezziwig]

In VotG CG16 the word "Mobile" can be found (see Index).

Irrespective, I would find it difficult to sit across the table from someone who "plays" this way. YMMV.

 

[Roadtogundagai]

Irrespective, I would find it difficult to sit across the table from someone who "plays" this way. YMMV.

Bingo! It would be my last encounter with someone who used that tactic.

 

[Rockford]

1.5: Enter a hex with debris then change VCA a thousand times until you became Immobile.

Would work with StugS, but the halftracks can't enter debris. You may be able to find some other bog terrain. Though, on the VotG map, not sure what that might be.

Maybe you could find some Russian wire that isn't covered by a .50 cal.......:whist:

 

[IYAOYAS]

Would work with StugS, but the halftracks can't enter debris. You may be able to find some other bog terrain. Though, on the VotG map, not sure what that might be.

Maybe you could find some Russian wire that isn't covered by a .50 cal.......:whist:

Yes they can.
VotG18: "...may enter a Debris location in the same manner as a fully tracked AFV..."

 

[Stacks]

Irrespective, I would find it difficult to sit across the table from someone who "plays" this way. YMMV.

Of course who wouldn´t - for you own information - its about the rules
or the lack of rules in VotG.

YMMV ??? you better spell it out.

 

[Stacks]

Would work with StugS, but the halftracks can't enter debris. You may be able to find some other bog terrain. Though, on the VotG map, not sure what that might be.

Maybe you could find some Russian wire that isn't covered by a .50 cal.......:whist:

Or purchase a German wire

Although, the best way to make your AFV to became non-Mobile would be to
make a maximum ESB attempt with your Halftracks (a DR of 7 or more) in any
hex of your choice.

 

['Ol Fezziwig]

Of course who wouldn´t - for you own information - its about the rules
or the lack of rules in VotG.

YMMV ??? you better spell it out.

The last thing ASL needs is more rules just spelling out what you cannot do; I think at some point, the players (of any game, not ASL specifically) need to start playing the game and stop gaming the rules.

<sorry> YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary.

 

[pward]

The last thing ASL needs is more rules just spelling out what you cannot do; I think at some point, the players (of any game, not ASL specifically) need to start playing the game and stop gaming the rules.

Good luck. I've seen it (and done it) in every rule system I've ever played. Role playing games are notoriously error prone with respect to min-maxing a character or otherwise bending the rules to their benefit.

Using the game rules to your advantage shows knowledge of the rules. Doing something that you think is a good idea, then maybe you need to really re-evaluate the value of those crews.

If you think another 1-2-7 crew is worth more than a range 16 IFE 6 halftrack, so be it. It's a standoff weapon in most circumstances, but it's also got 14/16 MP to cut rout paths or other maneuver warfare tactics...

A handful of extra crews per day isn't going to help that much in the long run. The German player needs to be concerned about the company or two per day of riflemen he's buying, not the trio of vehicle crews. At most in a CG2/4, the German player has 5 platoons to use. (One at start, 4 purchased.) That's a total of 15 possible crews every day. (Provided of course, none are depleted.)

Assuming it's inside the German perimeter far enough so we don't have to worry about the Russians eliminating it, there is the following sequence:

V12.6151 d) - The HT should be immobilized and abandoned. Two entirely different statuses. Successful recovery on anything but a natural 6 means it's recovered from the immobilized status and retained. Take it off the map, it's back in the depot.

V12.6151 e) - Now try to remove the immobilization, successful only on a dr<=2. Success here is actually worse, since the immobilized unit can be deployed, apparently with a free crew, only to be immediately abandoned again at the earliest opportunity.

Seems to me that this should be the place to fix this loophole. Recovered immobilized vehicles should not be able to enter the map the next day. (How did they get from the depot to the battlefield?)

Then you have to worry about recall per platoon, and the chance that the vehicles don't come back, especially after Sept 24.

 

[janusz.maxe]

PWard, do you agree the free remanning of the vehicle should be fixed, or are you arguing that this is not a problem?

Note that this tactic of abandoning and destroying FlaKs can be used on turn 5 or later, leaving the vehicle to fight like normal (well behind the front as they should be) for the first 4 turns any CG day. And I believe that an additional 7-9 crews by 17th will make a difference for recon bump, DC delivery, gun manning and sniper attack soaking. If you bought extra wagens you can have 15+ extra crews running around. All self rallying.
Janusz

 

['Ol Fezziwig]

The place to address transmorgrifying crews is within the tender clutches of Chapter D, not in an isolated HASL.