Valor of the Guards Q&A

Darren Kovacs

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Recon - Dummy counters

12.6265 RECON INSPECTION - for this rule would any reconnoitered location containing dummy counters "?" be eliminated?

It does not specifically spell that out nor does it in Red Barricades as a reference. On the other hand, KGP does specifically mentions that dummy counters are eliminated if reconned.

My feeling is yes (using KGP as a standard for reference). Is there a separate rule to give a concrete answer or community consensus?

Darren
 

Tom Morin

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Recon - Dummy counters

12.6265 RECON INSPECTION - for this rule would any reconnoitered location containing dummy counters "?" be eliminated?

It does not specifically spell that out nor does it in Red Barricades as a reference. On the other hand, KGP does specifically mentions that dummy counters are eliminated if reconned.

My feeling is yes (using KGP as a standard for reference). Is there a separate rule to give a concrete answer or community consensus?

Darren
Darren,

I would say yes, Dummy counters would be removed.

Tom
 

clubby

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Aren't dummies always eliminated when they're revealed by any means?
 

jrv

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Aren't dummies always eliminated when they're revealed by any means?
Recon is a pre-game action in certain campaign games only. As such it isn't covered by the core rules. Any behavior would have to be defined by the CG rules.

JR
 

clubby

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I understand what Recon is and I get what you're saying, but does that always hold true? I can purchase Trenches in the RePh, but the ability to purchase a Trench doesn't override the rules of where I can place it. I can purchase a +1 SAN, but the core rules tell me my SAN cannot be increased to more than 7. Even though the CG rules specifically spell that out to me, I'm still confined to playing the CG game within those rules unless the CG rules override them.
 

jrv

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I understand what Recon is and I get what you're saying, but does that always hold true? I can purchase Trenches in the RePh, but the ability to purchase a Trench doesn't override the rules of where I can place it. I can purchase a +1 SAN, but the core rules tell me my SAN cannot be increased to more than 7. Even though the CG rules specifically spell that out to me, I'm still confined to playing the CG game within those rules unless the CG rules override them.
Dummy units that lose concealment are removed. Although the Recon forces HIP units to be put on board concealed, it does not strip concealment in VotG. It allows freedom of inspection, but it never says that concealment is lost (although, confusingly, it says any concealment is regained). If it stripped concealment you might have a case but the action does not, as far as I read. As written it would allow the opponent to inspect the stack, including any dummies.

JR
 

carlsson

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Hence, to save points, doing a Search could therefore be more effective (if you start Adjacent to the enemy of course).

I really hate this. I was convinced that a Recon stripped concealments, and put HIP under Concealment. Must be another CG....
 

clubby

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Remember when searching in RB or VotG, the Germans are subject to Search Casualties. Cheaper in points for sure, might cost something in casualties.
 

carlsson

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True that.

But my reason for using Recon is (was) to get rid of the opponent's Concealment status.
(and in this case I am the Russian) :)
 

jrv

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But my reason for using Recon is (was) to get rid of the opponent's Concealment status.
(and in this case I am the Russian)
I did a quick survey of Recon across all products that had it. In all of the rules if units lost concealment they regained it after Recon when in concealment terrain (which would probably apply in VotG). The best you get is Fortifications on board, HIP on board (concealed), Concealment lost for units not in Concealment Terrain & Dummies removed, plus Right of Inspection. In no rules set do you get total loss of concealment. It isn't a pre-game search, which is perhaps what you might expect.

JR
 

volgaG68

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VotG 14 "Pavlov's House" ... Part of SSR3, "The StuG IIIBs may not fire Smoke." Would using their sD be allowed under this prohibition?

Thanks!
 

GamerGeek

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MA Disabled for Dug-In AFV's.

Appears a Dug-In AFV that disables his MA during refit (12.6152) get turned into a wreck as per the rules, any exceptions anywhere for being Dug-In?

My guess is no, but it seems it would make a nice 4FP armoured cupola!

:)

BB
 

Tom Morin

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MA Disabled for Dug-In AFV's.

Appears a Dug-In AFV that disables his MA during refit (12.6152) get turned into a wreck as per the rules, any exceptions anywhere for being Dug-In?

My guess is no, but it seems it would make a nice 4FP armoured cupola!

:)

BB

No exceptions.

Tom
 

volgaG68

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RE: VotG 20 Terror At Twilight
VC state, "The Russians win immediately by amassing >= 30 VP. Exit VP are awarded normally... VP are deducted equal to the turn number..."

Do CVP gained apply to the 30VP?

[I ask because it does not specifically say "CVP are awarded normally" or some such. As written, it seems to me the only variables to the VP total are EVP and VP-deduction for German reinforcement arrival. Probably reading too much into nothing...]

Thanks!
 

Tom Morin

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RE: VotG 20 Terror At Twilight
VC state, "The Russians win immediately by amassing >= 30 VP. Exit VP are awarded normally... VP are deducted equal to the turn number..."

Do CVP gained apply to the 30VP?

[I ask because it does not specifically say "CVP are awarded normally" or some such. As written, it seems to me the only variables to the VP total are EVP and VP-deduction for German reinforcement arrival. Probably reading too much into nothing...]

Thanks!
CVP do not apply.

Regards,

Tom
 

clubby

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@Tom Morin

Can you use CG purchased ? as Reserve dummies if you didn't purchase any infantry in reserve?
 

Eagle4ty

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@Tom Morin

Can you use CG purchased ? as Reserve dummies if you didn't purchase any infantry in reserve?
I would think Dummies are Dummies and Reserves are covered by RG rules. I do not believe in the instance you are alluding to that the Dummies purchased as FPP could be used to represent Reserve Groups as no appropriate RG had been purchased for that CG Date.
 

Honosbinda

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The rules as written support that cloak dummies can be purchased in both RB and VOTG whether or not any RG are purchased in reserve. There is no restriction on such purchases in either the RB/VOTG FORT comment table, nor in the HASL rules, nor in Chapter E. If an answer comes back changing this, I'd disagree with the decision, no matter who it came from.

In effect this allows a player to create fake reserve RG(s) in order to deceive the enemy. Why not? If a player can buy regular dummies, why not cloak dummies? Why would anyone want to prohibit this as a tactic, even if it is a bit questionable in terms of how effective it might be.
 
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