Valor of the Guards Q&A

Swiftandsure

Robin Reeve
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Messages
16,372
Reaction score
1,936
Location
St-Légier
First name
Robin
Country
llSwitzerland
When ADJACENT to a building with a Cellar, does a Trench connect to the Cellar only, or to the ground level of the building also?
 

volgaG68

Fighting WWII One DR At A Time
Joined
Jun 15, 2012
Messages
2,891
Reaction score
916
Location
Hays, KS
Country
llUnited States
When ADJACENT to a building with a Cellar, does a Trench connect to the Cellar only, or to the ground level of the building also?
I've recently applied errata to O6.21 which now confines them to only connecting to the Cellar level, if such exists. If no Cellar level exists, it connects to the ground floor Location. It was a duplicate sticky to be applied to that rule in the original RB rules, and to the Chapter O rendition found in VotG. (I haven't applied J11 & J12 errata yet, so it must have come from a previous Journal.)
 

Swiftandsure

Robin Reeve
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Messages
16,372
Reaction score
1,936
Location
St-Légier
First name
Robin
Country
llSwitzerland
Thanks. I should have dug into the errata files.
 

Tom Morin

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2003
Messages
886
Reaction score
291
Location
New Port Richey, FL.
Country
llUnited States
I've recently applied errata to O6.21 which now confines them to only connecting to the Cellar level, if such exists. If no Cellar level exists, it connects to the ground floor Location. It was a duplicate sticky to be applied to that rule in the original RB rules, and to the Chapter O rendition found in VotG. (I haven't applied J11 & J12 errata yet, so it must have come from a previous Journal.)
Zis ist correct.

Tom
 

Swiftandsure

Robin Reeve
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Messages
16,372
Reaction score
1,936
Location
St-Légier
First name
Robin
Country
llSwitzerland
As the Russian vehicular crews are not elite, are they nevertheless stealthy (iow are they considered 1st Line)?
VotG16 STEALTH: All Good Order Russian Elite and 1st Line Infantry are Stealthy
 

witchbottles

Forum Guru
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
8,983
Reaction score
2,040
Location
Rio Vista, CA
Country
llUnited States
I think the status of vehicular crews is undefined in the rules.
A25.2? "...Any weapon/ AFV identified in a scenario Order of Battle as belonging to a GUARDS formation has its Depletion Numbers increased by one due to being Elite..."

Seems to suggest these AFV are always elite unless revoked by SSR.
 

Swiftandsure

Robin Reeve
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Messages
16,372
Reaction score
1,936
Location
St-Légier
First name
Robin
Country
llSwitzerland
So it seems... I won't consider the Russian 127 MOL-P crews as stealthy, then.
Not worse than NKVD troops.
 

klasmalmstrom

Forum Guru
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Messages
15,920
Reaction score
2,444
Location
Sweden
Country
llSweden
A25.2? "...Any weapon/ AFV identified in a scenario Order of Battle as belonging to a GUARDS formation has its Depletion Numbers increased by one due to being Elite..."

Seems to suggest these AFV are always elite unless revoked by SSR.
That type of Elite, isn't the same thing as Elite, 1st, 2nd Line, etc.
 

Swiftandsure

Robin Reeve
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Messages
16,372
Reaction score
1,936
Location
St-Légier
First name
Robin
Country
llSwitzerland
That type of Elite, isn't the same thing as Elite, 1st, 2nd Line, etc.
I don't grasp what you mean.
I thought that VotG16 defines that Elite and 1st Line Russian are stealthy.
So 2nd line - which is what the VotG guards actually are (VotG22 "... NKVD MMC are 2nd Line troops (A1.25)...") - are not stealthy.
 

klasmalmstrom

Forum Guru
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Messages
15,920
Reaction score
2,444
Location
Sweden
Country
llSweden
I don't grasp what you mean.
I thought that VotG16 defines that Elite and 1st Line Russian are stealthy.
So 2nd line - which is what the VotG guards actually are (VotG22 "... NKVD MMC are 2nd Line troops (A1.25)...") - are not stealthy.
What I mean is that being part of a GUARDS formation only means Elite for Depletion Numbers increase.
 

Swiftandsure

Robin Reeve
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Messages
16,372
Reaction score
1,936
Location
St-Légier
First name
Robin
Country
llSwitzerland
Perry Sez on O6.2-21.

RBO6.jpg

Does the O6.2 example exclude the connected Trench in D24 (or at least the 8-3-8 in it) as one of the Locations ADJACENT to C25?
No.

Is a RB Cellar ADJACENT to a unit in a connected Trench?
Yes.

....Perry

MMP
 

Swiftandsure

Robin Reeve
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Messages
16,372
Reaction score
1,936
Location
St-Légier
First name
Robin
Country
llSwitzerland
Perry Sez on O6.2-21.

View attachment 2415

Does the O6.2 example exclude the connected Trench in D24 (or at least the 8-3-8 in it) as one of the Locations ADJACENT to C25?
No.

Is a RB Cellar ADJACENT to a unit in a connected Trench?
Yes.

....Perry

MMP
 

carlsson

Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
216
Reaction score
27
Location
Borås, Sweden
Country
llSweden
E1.2 states that "Neither the “?”/HIP units need set up in Concealment Terrain" if you are the DEFENDER.

May you HIP in the same way as the ATTACKER?
Chap. E only covers the DEFENDER in E1.2, but I presume that's only because Night was originally designed to have the ATTACKER always start off board without any HIP.
 

klasmalmstrom

Forum Guru
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Messages
15,920
Reaction score
2,444
Location
Sweden
Country
llSweden
E1.2 states that "Neither the “?”/HIP units need set up in Concealment Terrain" if you are the DEFENDER.

May you HIP in the same way as the ATTACKER?
Not as the Scenario Attacker, no.

Q&A:
E1.2

E1.2 states this: “Neither the “?”/HIP units need set up in Concealment Terrain but lose “?”/HIP as if they were.”
1. Does this mean that the SCENARIO DEFENDER can set up HIP and dummies in non-Concealment Terrain (including OG)
and they only lose it as if they were in, say, a building (for example)—so they could sit out there HIP the whole time until they
move/fire/get run into/etc.?
A. Yes.

2. If true, does this only apply to the dummies (somewhat implied by “?”) and free HIP given to the SCENARIO DEFENDER? Or
does it also apply to all of the concealed units that the SCENARIO DEFENDER sets up?
A. To all of the concealed (and hidden) units the Scenario Defender sets up.

3. If true, does the HIP/“?” part apply to additional HIP/“?” given to the SCENARIO DEFENDER, or just the 25% HIP/“?” in his
allotment for it being Night?
A. It applies to all units setting up hidden/concealed and dummy stacks—regardless of how they are granted the ability to set up
hidden/concealed.

4. If the SCENARIO ATTACKER has HIP (or can set up on board without cloaking), can they also do the same setup tricks?
A. No. E1.2 only applies to the Scenario Defender.
 

carlsson

Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
216
Reaction score
27
Location
Borås, Sweden
Country
llSweden
Thanks Klas.

I wonder how many plays it this way, and if this is Toms, and all Campaign Game writers, intention...?

It's quite a difference to be able to set up with dummies in Non Concealment terrain as the Attacker....
 

volgaG68

Fighting WWII One DR At A Time
Joined
Jun 15, 2012
Messages
2,891
Reaction score
916
Location
Hays, KS
Country
llUnited States
B28.6 states that Infantry may attempt Minefield Clearance as per 24.74.
B28.53 allows Infantry to remove un-HIP A-T mines on a paved road at the end of their MPh by expending an additional MF in that hex for that purpose.
VotG5. mines may be placed HIP in a paved road hex also containing shellholes.

In a VotG scenario, A-T mines are placed HIP in a paved road/shellhole hex.
Q: If a lone MMC moves forward, Searches, and discovers them, may a follow-up MMC remove them per B28.53 in the same MPh? Obviously, they will not be physically removed until the end of the MPh, but it can still be declared in such a manner?

Q: A 4-6-7 is using Armored Assault beneath a StuG IIIG and after 2MF/3MP (1 to Start) they discover the paved road/shellhole hex they have just entered is A-T mined. The StuG survives the entrance attack. With the StuG expending an MP to stop and Delay out, may the 4-6-7 declare A-T mine removal per B28.53?

I guess my questions could be condensed to the following: if A-T mines are placed HIP in a paved road/shellhole hex (VotG), may they be removed by Infantry at the end of the MPh per B28.53, regardless of what circumstance caused them to be placed on-map, even if the exact strength of them is still unknown?

Thanks!
 

Tom Morin

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2003
Messages
886
Reaction score
291
Location
New Port Richey, FL.
Country
llUnited States
"I guess my questions could be condensed to the following: if A-T mines are placed HIP in a paved road/shellhole hex (VotG), may they be removed by Infantry at the end of the MPh per B28.53, regardless of what circumstance caused them to be placed on-map, even if the exact strength of them is still unknown?"

Good question! The answer is No.

Tom
 

volgaG68

Fighting WWII One DR At A Time
Joined
Jun 15, 2012
Messages
2,891
Reaction score
916
Location
Hays, KS
Country
llUnited States
Good question! The answer is No.
Thanks, Tom. It was late last night, and in hindsight I can infer the rationale that unlike a wholly paved road all/most of the mines are most likely HIP in the torn-up shellhole sections of the road. They are not sitting out on the asphalt gleaming like dinner plates that can be seen from a 100 yards away.

[I need to quit formulating questions between the hours of 1-4 am after several drinks and hours of gaming. I end up not seeing the woods for the trees!]
 
Top