Valor of the Guards Q&A

[Trezza]

Trying to understand rule 4.7 on page V3 regarding the possible wrecking of a rail car hex. We had 80mm OBA roll a snake on one of these hexes. The subsequent dr was a 3. No unit was in the hex at the time. A snake on the 16 FP column is a 2 KIA. The subsequent dr is a 1 KIA and according to rule
4.7 it seems this rail car is now a wrecked rail car. Is this example correct?
It seems backwards to me because if the subsequent dr was a 1 (3 KIA), the rail car would not be wrecked according to rule 4.7. Please advise here.

 

[pward]

Trezza, the subsequent dr has to be equal to or lower than the # in the KIA result. In your instance you seem to have looked up the dr on the IFT. So a 2KIA rubbles the railcar on a subsequent dr <= 2.

 

[James Taylor]

pward is correct Gary--- The Railcar hex becomes a Wrecked RailCar hex on a subsequent dr of 1 or 2, i.e. less than or equal to the kia number you rolled. Since snakes on a 16 = 2kia you needed to roll a 1 or a 2.

This the same mechanism for rubbling a building without the +1 for stone construction of course.

Note that wrecked rail car hexes are treated the same as wooden rubble hexes (other than not turning into shellholes when blazed).

Also note that rail cars can become gutted by being set ablaze. Regardless of whether it was a "wrecked" rail car or not, a rail car hex becomes a gutted rail car during the refit after it was a blaze.

Any gutted rail car is treated just like a debris hex, i.e. use the debris rules not the rail car rules.

JT

 

[Trezza]

Appreciate the response. My opponent and myself both brain cramped it. We played it as no rail wreck and I hate all Russian conscripts that find MOL's.
Nothing more need to be said as I am the Russians.

 

[James Taylor]

Appreciate the response. My opponent and myself both brain cramped it. We played it as no rail wreck and I hate all Russian conscripts that find MOL's.
Nothing more need to be said as I am the Russians.

LOL, there is a reason Red Barricades is called Red Bar-be-que!

Still waiting on an appropriate name for VotG...

Question--- when are we going to play this thing? Hell, I've only got 3 CG's currently underway...

I'll be the Russians and you can be the Germans in CGIV!

JT

 

[Tater]

LOL, there is a reason Red Barricades is called Red Bar-be-que!

Still waiting on an appropriate name for VotG...

I am thinking of "Valor of The Mortars"...I got mtrs out the wahzoo! I got a Ruski mtr in just about every available level 2 location.

 

[truganini]

Tom Morin states that NKVD and Commissars lose concealment when rallying broken in a strongpoint, even if the brokies are not in t the same location.
Janusz

Further question regarding the concealment loss:
If there are more than one Location with NKVDs/Commissars adjacent to the rallying unit. Does one or more of them lose concealment? If more than one, is it the owners choice?

 

[Tater]

Tom Morin states that NKVD and Commissars lose concealment when rallying broken in a strongpoint, even if the brokies are not in t the same location.

There are problems with this mechanic...

1) You can't get there with the rules (ASLRB or VotG) as written.
2) The adjacent NKVD/Commissar aren't performing an action. That is, the rally is describe "as if" a Commissar is in the location with the brokie...as far as I know adjacent units don't lose '?' when Commissars are rallying units.
3) What if there are are multiple NKVD/Commissar in adjacent hex(es)...(asked below)...either in multiple adjacent hexes OR multiple NKVD/Commissar in the same hex? Who gives up '?' for the rally attempt.
4) What if enemy units have LOS to the brokie but not to the adjacent NKVD/Commissar which allow the rally?
5) What if enemy units have LOS to the adjacent NKVD/Commissar but not the brokies who are rallying?
6) Possibly more issues...

This needs to have a whole lot more flesh hung on the bones. Personally, until Tom/MMP write up the rules for how to handle all this, I would play this special rally as having no effect on the '?' status of the enabling, adjacent NKVD/Commissars.

 

[Aavar]

I was looking at the Votg Map and two hexes are different depending which half of the you are looking at
q27 and LL24 i believe are the two hexes.
on the north half Q27 has no level 1 but on the southern map it has the large circle indicating it does haev a level 1.
for LL24 it is the same problem but in reverse, on the north map it shows the center DOT and on the southern part it doesn't, but since this is a two hex building the other half of the building has the large centre dot indicating a factory hex, so i assume that the other half is suppsed to have the large centre dot too.

I was wondering if my maps were the only ones that have this difference.

 

[BruceC]

HIP Set DC/Recon

From a PM I sent Tom Morin.

Tom-

I didn't want to post this in public until my opponent has discovered my DC.

He reconned the hex containing this HIS set DC.

Does he get to know of it's existence? Rules say searching will reveal, but recon wasn't exactly clear, and there are exceptions for certain forts.

thanks
Bruce

Bruce,

Yes, unfortunately the presence of the HIP DC would be revealed.

Tom

 

[janusz.maxe]

A Soviet 80mm MTR is lost to the Germans during day 1.
Day 2 that MTR is used against it's former owners, but a DR of 12 eliminates it.
Does this count as 2 CVP lost for the Germans?
Janusz

 

[Tater]

A Soviet 80mm MTR is lost to the Germans during day 1.
Day 2 that MTR is used against it's former owners, but a DR of 12 eliminates it.
Does this count as 2 CVP lost for the Germans?
Janusz

Interesting question...which brings up some other interesting issues.

One of which is that there is no step/cut-off for calculating CVP. CVP only matters for battle hardening and CPP roles...it doesn't actually matter for VC. Because of that the standard rules don't apply since that is mostly related to VC.

If the German (using your situation) captures a Ruski 82mm it counts as double CVP...but does it count each scenario that it survives? It is always a captured weapon no matter how many scenarios it's lasts. So during each subsequent scenario does the German get to count the 82mm as 4 CVP inflicted and the Ruski counts it as 2 CVP suffered? It would seem so.

Now, the odds are against such a captured weapon lasting long BUT, it is theoretically feasible for that captured 82mm to remain in play for the course of the entire CG...counting as 4CVP/2CVP each RePh.

To answer your specific question, yes, the 2CVP count as inflicted by the Germans and suffered by the Ruski. IOW, during the BH step the German gets to count 2CVP as "amassed" and during the CPP step the Russian counts it as 2CVP suffered...that is how a captured weapon works and there is nothing in VotG that changes that.

 

[sdennis]

Wreck Recovery question

V12.615d: Recovery of immobilized AFV or wreck:

It says an original 6 dr results in the WRECK being unrecoverable...

What about a immob. AFV that you are trying to recover that rolls a 6?

Remain in place?

 

[janusz.maxe]

Do we read the "gutted building" rules right?
Vs indirect fire, they state that the TEM is +1 for every non-rooftop lvl above the location attacked. Since it says "non-rooftop", not "non-roofless", should the topmost lvl count? Instinctively I say no, but the wording suggests otherwise.
Q: Does a unit on lvl 1 in a gutted multilvl building get +3 or +4 vs indirect fire?
Janusz

 

[janusz.maxe]

Questions:
1: Does a possible german entry hex count as a frontline location for reserve setup purposes. E.g. can the Soviets ever setup preserves in row A?

2: Are units bought from the guard reinforcements groups count as elite for special ammo depletion?

TIA
Janusz

 

[SamB]

Questions:
1: Does a possible german entry hex count as a frontline location for reserve setup purposes. E.g. can the Soviets ever setup preserves in row A?

2: Are units bought from the guard reinforcements groups count as elite for special ammo depletion?

TIA
Janusz

1. I don't think the Russians can ever setup "Reserves" in row A. Even if row A is a "Front line location", reserves must be setup at least six hexes away from the front line locations...

2. The only reinforcement groups called "Guards" are infantry. (Guards Rifle Coy, Guards SMG Platoon). What ammo depletion numbers would they have? IOW, I don't think purchasing Guards does anything to your ammo depletion number(s).

Just my opinion.

 

[Tater]

1. I don't think the Russians can ever setup "Reserves" in row A. Even is row A is a "Front line location", reserves must be setup at least six hexes away from the front line locations...

Entry area locations do not meet the (VotG) definition of "Front Line Location" (FLL) UNLESS they are part of the actual perimeter. An entry area location can't be part of the perimeter unless it is currently controlled. For example, if the Russian controls from A36 south and the German controls A35 north then the Russian could set-up reserves on A41 south.

I am pretty sure there are some CG's where FLL include entry areas as part of the definition BUT it doesn't appear that VotG does.

2. The only reinforcement groups called "Guards" are infantry. (Guards Rifle Coy, Guards SMG Platoon). What ammo depletion numbers would they have? IOW, I don't think purchasing Guards does anything to your ammo depletion number(s).

Agreed...yes, they are Guard but they have no weapons with any depletion numbers for it to matter.

 

[janusz.maxe]

Both red and orange unit groups are listed as part of guards regiment X (page v24). Since they both have HW-platoons, including heavy mortars with special ammo, would this ammo number be +1?

 

[Bob Holmstrom]

Great question. Tom?

 

[Tater]

Both red and orange unit groups are listed as part of guards regiment X (page v24). Since they both have HW-platoons, including heavy mortars with special ammo, would this ammo number be +1?

Unlike the Rifles and SMG formations which use the same entry color code, the HW are not designated as "Guards". This seems intentional to me. Unless errata is issued to change the purchase chart to read "Guards HW Plt", I would say the HW don't get the bump.