v2dot7 f all MMP Starter Kit Scenario Enhanced Setups Have Been Upload

[ireland94]

I finally completed the v2.7 enhanced setups of all the MMP published scenarios. They have been uploaded. They are organized by MMP release:
Starter Kit 1
Starter Kit 2
Starter Kit 3
Starter Kit Bonus Pack 1
Starter Kit Expansion Pack 1
Starter Kit Other MMP (website, Operations, Special Operations, etc.)
Enjoy and post if you like them or find and error or want to recommend a change

VASL Patrick Ireland
GS ireland94
Skype pat19481013

 

[Pocky101]

Forgive me if this is a dumb question but....uploaded to where?

 

[ireland94]

http://forums.gamesquad.com/downloads.php?do=cat&id=81

 

[ireland94]

Find them?

 

[Pocky101]

Yes. Thanks. I didn't realize there was a "download" tab up there

 

[R.Beef]

Mahalos for this! Totally echibon community!

 

[Hipsu]

Hey, nice job!

One thing confuses me though. The colored hex-borders at the top and the bottom of the map for units that enter from that particular side (ex. Retaking Vierville) suggests that one can setup the entering units on the half hexes of the board (coordinates 0 and 10) which is not true because half hexes are considered full onboard hexes, not offboard hexes.

I'm not sure if you knew that or not but that's the impression it gives to me and might lead newbies to some bad habbits...

Another thing:
I wish you had made these with a VASL copy that had zero extensions loaded. I get a very intimidating error list when I open these save files thus I can't be sure if I "miss" something that you might have put on the map but which isn't loaded because I don't have the extension. Also, the error list itself is plain scary and can be a turn off to new player right there. But I suppose it's too late now.

Still, excellent work overall!

 

[ireland94]

Hi Hipsu,
Yes, I am aware of the oddity with half-hexes. The problem is that it is difficult to place offboard full hex perimeters without the spacer hex perimeter. It is more of a problem of positioning due to some weird characteristics of laying out VASL boards. I tried to initially do the offboard hexes and not include the onboard half hexes but the results were really ugly and took and inordinate amount of time. So what you see is the compromise. The positioning becomes a real problem when you consider all the different screen resolutions that different players can use. I have a very high resolution monitor but when I view the same games with my lower resolution notebook, the position often changes. Another, but unrelated to the hex positioning problem, is that of testing LOS. You can get different results based on the resolution of your monitor. I have seen the problem many times when I play against a opponent with a lower resolution monitor. I lots of times have to take a screen shot from my monitor and send it to the player. This really becomes a problem when my opponent is doing setups and testing LOS prior to play as his LOS tests do not match against my high resolution montior.

As to the extension set. I would be more than happy to send you the ZIP of my extension set. Normally, I post the ZIP file up to GS with the setups. My goof. I am out of town this week but will post the file when I return. The reason is that extension file that I use has lots of third part extension for things like, Critical Hit, Heat of Battle, and other third parties. Additionally, I try, but am not always successful at having only the most recent version of an extension. Determining the most recent version of an extension is another exercise in frustration. There is no standardized naming convention for the various releases of the same extension so it is virtually impossible at times to pick the correct version. Sometimes you end up with multiple copies (each different named) for the same extension. VASL sometimes gripes about that too. In the short time, just load the game you want and save it back. When you save a game, the extension set that is valid for your machine is noted. When you reload that game you saved on your machine, you will not get all of the VASL extension nasty-grams.

Pat

 

[Hipsu]

I tried to initially do the offboard hexes and not include the onboard half hexes but the results were really ugly and took and inordinate amount of time. So what you see is the compromise.

Are you perhaps talking about how the perimeter overlays don't "snap" to grid when placed off board? I'm familiar with that so what I usually do is that I place first everything on the board where they snap and then select everything (holding shift down and clicking through every perimeter overlay) and move all of them at once off board. But if they shift with different resolutions then I don't know...

 

[ireland94]

Yes,
Snapping is part of the problem. Monitor resolution is another problem. In the past I tried what you suggest but was the results where unsatisfactory. It is due to the mathematically calculations required to represent a continuous shape to a quantized (pixel) image on the monitor. These calculation results change as the monitor resolution changes, as seen in the LOS problem I mentioned earlier. Do not get me wrong. VASL has been a savior for the game of ASL. Prior to VASL, i was lucky to get one face to face game a month. Now I do 14 more more newbie training sessions a week (of course the sessions are not a full game each). VASL is what it is, warts and all. Oh, one of the problems with you method occurs when there are multiple boards with hexes all around, lots of counters and labels offboard. The underlying VASSAL (JAVA program code) gets a memory fault at times. I have 4 GBs of RAM and have altered my HEAP sizes but on occasions it still occurs. JAVA does a poor job of memory recovery. This is clear by just loading and closing multiple scenario setups. Eventually, VASL will fail. The problem of the screen resolution can also been seen when viewing various websites using HTML code. The screen appears different based on your monitor resolution and your web browser. It is interesting feature of VASL that you can put HTML code in the text of an offscreen user label. There are limits to what you can do with the HTML, but if you select an offscreen label, then view the text, you will seen something like <HTML>....</HTML> a cool feature and also allows you to colorize text using HTML like <FONT color=blue>This is blue text</FONT>. Other useful HTML are <CENTER>...</CENTER> and <DIV options here>...</DIV>

 

[Hipsu]

Ok. Still, I think in the next version you should at least make the half-board perimeters other color (black) and explain somewhere that one cannot setup reinforcements in the black half-hexes and that they are there for the functionality purposes only. Just a suggestion.

 

[ireland94]

Actually, I appreciate that you have spent the time to converse with me. How about as a counter argument that a "Note" is made about the half-hexes being onboard and not an offboard set up hex. My reasoning is that there is only a limited number of colors (6) and one of them has poor contrast (yellow) against the white background. That is the reason I use the yellow with black background when I have to use a yellow perimeter hex and describe the yellow in the text for above a combatant OB. This lack of colors comes into play when there are corner hexes that can be used by multiple groups to come onboard. For example, a group coming in from the east board edge and another from the south board edge share a common hex. I color this hex differently because is can be used by two different groups. Another example is when one group comes in on a road hex and another group comes in but on the same board edge as the road. Again, I try to use distinguishing colors. I wish I had more color choices or better yet could have multiple colors, like green and red dashed edges. Never mind the dashed colors, that would cause a problem whenever two or more hexes have a common hex side. I guess the "Note" is the best unless you have any additional ideas. Please feel free to make additional suggestions, as the goal is to improve a free useful product tailored for newbies. By the way, you GS location is Lahti, is that the city in Finland?

 

[Hipsu]

Just a note is just fine with me. And I didn't mean to push my views.

Yes, I'm Finnish. I've put Finland as the Country in my profile and the city is "Lahti". But these forums only shows the city for some reason...

 

[ireland94]

Sorry, I hit the post when I had an additional thought. I am on vacation this week so don't have a scenario setup available but I believe "S1 Retaking Vierville" is an example of the colorization problem. The four hexes in the village for the American setup are yellow, the right edge for the American entry are lime, then the top German and bottom German are blue and black, I don't remember off the top of my head whether the blue is at the top and black at the bottom or vice versa. The point is that there is a shared German-American hex at the top right and another at the bottom right, each also having a unique color. So that uses up all six colors. I am not sure how to colorize this particular scenario setup. Again, since you seem to have interest, do you have any suggestions? I am certainly am willing to make a sample and send it to you for your critique.

 

[ireland94]

Don't be afraid and step out and state your thoughts. I have and on some occasions been put in my place by the very knowledgable ASL sharks out there. After being slapped around and rightfully so, by the sharks, I try to look up answers on both the SK and the full ASL rule book. I use the term BOB in place of ASLRB as it rolls of the tongue better. Beside BOB means Big Orange Book (ASLRB binder is orange in color). Other people say BOB means Big Orange Ba$tard, My BOB is three binders because I use page protectors. They take up a lot of desk space when I have to research a rule. All my Starter Kit stuff fits in one binder, again with page protectors.

 

[Hipsu]

Again, since you seem to have interest, do you have any suggestions? I am certainly am willing to make a sample and send it to you for your critique.

Not if I make a sample first.

The funny thing is that I don't even play with VASL (I much prefer FtF), nor do I play Starter Kits anymore. But I started my ASL career with Starter Kits and I am interested in your setup files because A) they can be a great help to newbs and helping newbs is near to my heart as well. B) I do use VASL to study the maps and maybe set up units before an actual FtF game and it's great for heavily modified terrain SSRs like "all hills are woods" so I can print those out.

Anyways, I don't know how to overcome to color limitation but actually I do have other suggestion(s) (with your permission of stating my thoughts).

I think I figured out a fool proof, rules proof, funtionality proof and a non-compromising way to show the setups for entering units. Instead of marking all the off-board hexes they can set up onto, simply only show the hexes they must show up to during this turn. Two reasons:
1) In ASL units can do offboard movement to their hearts content as long as they enter at some point during that turn. Thus nothing prevents them to set up further away from the board, beyond the shown perimeter hexes. Although this is really important only in SK3+ when Tanks appear, so one can make a long off board column for vehicles using road movement.

2) The scenario cards sometimes limits the hexes where one must enter (for example "between M0 and P0"). If you mark only the off board setup hexes a newbie might forget the limitations and sidestep out of the boundaries by accident. But if you marked the hexes where they must enter then accidents can't happen.

3) Plus I think it looks more neat and less crowded.

So... I took pictures. I used S14 - 88s at Zon as an example.
First your version:



The problem I see here (in addition to half-hex setup confusion I mentioned earlier) is that a unit setupping in M11 or E11 can accidentally enter on L10 or D10 respectively if they forget the entering limitations of "M10-P10" and "E10-H10".



My suggestion is to only show the hexes where units must enter:



This way the entering units can setup anywhere they want as long as they make the entry in one of those hexes. For consistency sake I did the same to the black exit hexes. So those are the hexes a unit must exit through.



Then another idea hit me. These perimeters are great for setup but can be distracting during play (I imagine). I personally would hit the "Remove All (Perimeter)" button after turn 2 when the final reinforcements have arrived. The problem is that it would remove the exit hex perimeters also which I would like to see throughout the game. So just for kicks I made a variant example where I used Victory markers instead for exit hexes:

 

[ireland94]

Hipsu,

I like your thoughts. I especially like the idea of marking the whole onboard entry hexes along with any half hexes that must be used. I understand the issue of being able to freely move offboard and the SK3 issues of a multiple depth of offboard hexes.

How about still marking the first full offboard hex with the only available whole and half onboard hexes?

One of the confusion I found the newbies make is the ability of move offboard during their entrance turn. Additionally, they try to overstack in offboard hexes.

One of the problems I have found with VASL is that you can not reposition the maps so as to have sufficient room to add the additional offboard hexes.

I agree that the layout gets busy.

It would be nice to have an hex perimeter extension that had more colors and possible a button on the map board the could remove all entry perimeter hexes. I have been a JAVA programming in the past but have never programmed an extension for VASL.

Sounds like an interesting challenge.

I guess I will explore that, more colors, and the ability to put a hex perimeter in a removal class. Actually, thinking about it, having a removal turn number associated with the class and similar to the remove all being able to remove DMs, TI/Pins, PFPh, etc, the perimeter remove would be able to a class of hex perimeters e.g., turn 1 hexes, turn 2 hexes, etc.

Yeap, an idea worth at least exploring.

What do you think?

Pat

 

[Hipsu]

You do know the "Perimeter" is already listed under the "Remove All" button? It just removes them all though. Or it might be one of my extensions that added it... I don't know.

I wouldn't mark both the onboard and offboard hexes unless they are different colors. Either mark where the offboard units can setup or where they can enter, but if you mark both with the same color, it would be confusing. Especially half-hexes.

 

[ireland94]

Hipsu,

Sorry about the long turn around time but I was out enjoying my vacation this afternoon.

I can see the advantage of marking both the onboard half and whole entry hexes as you did in your upper board alternation.

By not having at least one full offboard hex it may reduce some of the confusion.

I have not received any feedback about that issue other than from you.

On the other hand, I have not received much specific feedback either, just thanks for undertaking the effort.

I am not as interested in the using the yellow "V" as the exit hexes.

The problem with the yellow "V" is that it is also with buildings and other victory conditions.

One of the scenarios even requires the attack to control a minimum number of building hexes when there are over 20 on the board.

That was just too many yellow "V"s on that layout so I removed them all.

I tried to restrict the use of the black to the exit hexes. Sadly, the color menu for the perimeter hexes gets in the way and black must also be used as an entrance color.

What ever changes are made, it will take a while to go back through all the setups, several weeks maybe even more than a month.

My immediate goal is to finish redoing the Rally Point 2 Starter Kit Scenarios then I will finish redoing the French Starter Kit Scenarios.

Additionally, I have picked up 6 newbies I will start working with when I get back next week.

I am retired so I can work with players in Europe and Asia but is is a scheduling challenge at times.

Maybe we can even meet across the virtual battlefield.

Pat

 

[Hipsu]

Yeah, the V's for exit hexes isn't important. Just throwing out ideas for overcoming the Remove All Perimeters "problem" so I could remove the setup hexes during play but still see the exit hexes.