use of sM during the enemy MPh

[vidda]

An AFV in defense sees a new enemy unit moving during its MPh, and uses its smoke mortar.
Can it also use its MA gun and its MG against it (or against a different target) in the same phase?
Thanks!

 

[ibncalb]

An AFV in defense sees a new ennemy unit moving during its MPh, and uses its smoke mortar.
Can it also use its MA gun and its MG against it (or against a different target) in the same phase?
Thanks!

Yes but if it fires it can no longer then use smoke or a motion attempt.

 

[vidda]

so it's 1) mortar first, then 2) gun and MG, right? (and no motion attempt)

 

[ibncalb]

Or motion, smoke, then fire.

 

[Juan SantaX]

Or motion, smoke, then fire.

I think better SM, motion, then fire.

I think tou will have a +2 with the sM if you are in motion.

 

[Sparafucil3]

So you have to do Motion/sM before any fire. This is because those DRM could affect your shot. The thing to remember about an sM is it can shoot SMOKE up to three hexes away. If the enemy AFV has Stopped and cannot move any more, Motion may not be your best option. He is shooting +2 Case B, +2/+3 Case C, and +3 shooting out of a SMOKE Location. He needs an Original 2 TH depending on Point Blank, BU/CE, target size modifiers. Your shot is only +2 SMOKE, +2 Case J and then the rest (possibly Case A when you placed SMOKE, BU, etc). When your PFPh comes, you will have a -1 acq (at least) and the chance to shoot IF. The SMOKE will also disappear. So if you have a reasonable chance TK (say > 60%), you stand to kill the enemy AFV more often than you lose yours.

For example, say you hit on a 7 and kill on a 7. We are going to call a SHOCK a mission kill for this because I don't want to do the math. If your TH# is an Original 7 and your TK# is an Original 7, you Eliminate the enemy tank 33% of the time (.58 * .58). If you don't get the enemy on the first shot, your second shot (still needing 7 for this example), you would still have a 33% of killing the enemy AFV. Taken in total, that's a 55% (.33 + (.58 * .67) of Eliminating the enemy AFV on two shots. If you get ROF in there, it goes even higher.

I have an article in J15 that touches on this. The gist: take the first best shot. -- jim

 

[vidda]

Thanks! my situation is a bit different, it's a concealed german squad with a Panzershreck coming (assault move) within 2 hexes (and in a stone building) of my Churchill VI AFV. If I do smoke first (I'm already CE and no need to turn the turret) it requires 8 or less, then motion (unlikely, dr at 2), so with just the smoke it's a +2 (fire in APh) +3 (smoke) -1 (AFV size) so a TH at 4 if he takes a desperation fire (quite likely). With a -1 acquisition DRM i stand a chance to get him at the next Prep Fire, if he didn't break with the backblast.

 

[ibncalb]

Thanks! my situation is a bit different, it's a concealed german squad with a Panzershreck coming (assault move) within 2 hexes (and in a stone building) of my Churchill VI AFV. If I do smoke first (I'm already CE and no need to turn the turret) it requires 8 or less, then motion (unlikely, dr at 2), so with just the smoke it's a +2 (fire in APh) +3 (smoke) -1 (AFV size) so a TH at 4 if he takes a desperation fire (quite likely). With a -1 acquisition DRM i stand a chance to get him at the next Prep Fire, if he didn't break with the backblast.

I'm not sure you can smoke or motion attempt if the enemy unit is not known

 

[pensatl1962]

Personally, I’d live to fight another day. So I would smoke mortar him now and try motion in reverse if possible. If motion fails, at least get an area acq on him. Then in your player turn, you can back away in MPh if your motion attempt was successful. If your motion attempt failed, then you could either use your area acq in prep fire and hit him with smoke (your depletion is an 8, I believe) OR fire sM in MPH, and get out of there. Option 2 may be better. Do you have any other units available nearby that can suppress the MMC with PSK?

 

[klasmalmstrom]

I'm not sure you can smoke or motion attempt if the enemy unit is not known

You can....as long it is in LOS.

C2.401 A Motion status attempt may be declared during the MPh of an enemy ground unit by any DEFENDING Mobile vehicle which makes a Motion attempt dr ≤ the number of MF/MP expended in its LOS by that unit during its MPh....

D13.2:
"During the opponent’s MPh, a smoke dispenser usage attempt can be made following any MP/MF expenditure by an opposing unit in the vehicle’s LOS as if it were intervening with Defensive First Fire."

 

[Paul John]

So you have to do Motion/sM before any fire.

But either one (motion attempt or sM shot) can be first?

 

[vidda]

Personally, I’d live to fight another day. So I would smoke mortar him now and try motion in reverse if possible. If motion fails, at least get an area acq on him. Then in your player turn, you can back away in MPh if your motion attempt was successful. If your motion attempt failed, then you could either use your area acq in prep fire and hit him with smoke (your depletion is an 8, I believe) OR fire sM in MPH, and get out of there. Option 2 may be better. Do you have any other units available nearby that can suppress the MMC with PSK?

we're two turns before the end, and at this stage I'd rather get rid of his MMC, so prep fire it will be. Thanks for the advice!

 

[Michael R]

But either one (motion attempt or sM shot) can be first?

They can be done in either order, but being in motion will affect your sM shot.

 

[ScottRomanowski]

The thing to remember about an sM is it can shoot SMOKE up to three hexes away.

Technically, 1-3 hexes away. A sM can't place smoke in the AFV's own hex.

 

[Juan SantaX]

Situation wise, I think you could go first sM, then WP (or motion attempt), then motion attempt if no WP, then fire if allowed...

I think you can use WP, but not RB here... but the WP will be dispersed... A lot of things to ponder...

 

[klasmalmstrom]

I think you can use WP, but not RB here... but the WP will be dispersed... A lot of things to ponder...

WP places as DFF can be done, but not other non-WP attacks can have occurred, IIRC....

 

[vidda]

WP is not a strong option here: even if the WP is placed, the MC is with a -3 DRM because of the stone building (and BTW the squad is a 468 squad, so only a 12 would cause him to fail its NMC).

 

[clubby]

WP is not a strong option here: even if the WP is placed, the MC is with a -3 DRM because of the stone building (and BTW the squad is a 468 squad, so only a 12 would cause him to fail its NMC).

They're just talking about using it for the smoke aspect. Even dispersed WP will be +2 shooting out of it.